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UB Proliferate Control


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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:45 pm    Post subject: UB Proliferate Control Reply with quote

Decklist

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [M11] Drowned Catacomb
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
8 [UNH] Island
4 [ZEN] Swamp (3)
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge

// Creatures
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
3 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine

// Spells
3 [M11] Jace Beleren
1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
2 [SOM] Lux Cannon
4 [SOM] Contagion Clasp
3 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
3 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
4 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 [M11] Preordain
1 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
1 [M11] Brittle Effigy
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M11] Jace Beleren
SB: 1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
SB: 1 [SOM] Lux Cannon
SB: 1 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 [MBS] Go for the Throat
SB: 2 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 4 [M11] Flashfreeze
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas

General card selections/General deck matchups/Why I'm not running Jace TMS

My UB Proliferate Control article goes into detail regarding all of these. I'd rather not turn this first post into a wall of text regarding all of these (EngrishSkill if you want me to tell me and I"ll add all of it in here Smile

About This Thread

My aim with this thread is to more balance out the deck and develop ideas rather than general discussion about the deck's viability to begin with. Happy happy and all that Smile

Where I am Now

At present I'm really starting to reach the point where I don't need to make big, sweeping changes to the main deck - there I think I only need to balance numbers. The sideboard is where I need the most work - particularly in developing an efficient plan to handle Valakut.

The Questions

- 3 or 4 Everflowing Chalice?

I've been toying between these two numbers - I was at 4 until I cut one for a Go for the Throat. While a higher chance of a turn 3 Tezzeret/Chalice for 2/Lux Cannon/Zenith for 2 is very very good, late-game additional chalices I tend to want to be another business spell or card draw (especially now I've gone up to 26 lands). Trinket Mage also often allows me to search for a Chalice third turn to cast for 2 turn 4.

I think I still need more testing to make certain of the number, but perhaps others can glean more insight Smile.

- Amount of removal?

At present, I'm getting away with 3 Black Sun's Zenith/2 Go for the Throat, with 4 Contagion Clasp and 1 Contagion Engine rounding it out. At this stage I've found it's been enough, but I do wonder if I'm leaving myself open to random strategies but running so few, even if I have an extra two removal spells SBed.

- Go for the Throat vs Doom Blade.

Props go to JeZeus (in KeySam's PT Paris thread) for bringing this idea up. The original reason I had Go for the Throat in was to be able to hit Grave Titans and Vampires, which is a fair enough reason to include them. However, by using Tezzeret's -1 abilty, I can also use Doom Blade as a Shatter for opposing artifacts. This is something I feel will become especially relevant if proliferate control builds in any flavor pop up, but not sure it's the optimal choice at present.

- SB plan for Valakut.

At present my plan is something like:

+4 Flashfreeze +4 Spreading Seas -2 Tezzeret -2 Black Sun's Zenith, -2 Lux Cannon -1 Contagion Engine, -1 Trinket Mage

Which is awful, I know. I find it difficult to find an effective plan for tackling Valakut though, as if I weigh up on tackling the spell land avenue, then I leave myself open to Koth. If I don't dedicate enough slots to tackling Valakut itself though, then I find myself having problems handling it if I don't draw the land disruption.

One solution is to use Contaminated Ground as Spreading Seas 5-X, but then I either have to drop the amount of Flashfreeze or cut Memoricide. The five singletons for different reasons I'm pretty certain are correct to improve different matchups, so I'm pretty sure I can safely get away with dedicating ten slots (2/3 of my SB) to handling Valakut.

- Roo
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Top8eR



Joined: 03 Aug 2009
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: UB Proliferate Control Reply with quote

Weedmonkey wrote:

- 3 or 4 Everflowing Chalice?


4. Prolif and chalice work amazing together.

Weedmonkey wrote:

- Amount of removal?


id say go with 3 bsz and 2 gftt.

Weedmonkey wrote:

- Go for the Throat vs Doom Blade.


gftt

Weedmonkey wrote:

- SB plan for Valakut.

At present my plan is something like:

+4 Flashfreeze +4 Spreading Seas -2 Tezzeret -2 Black Sun's Zenith, -2 Lux Cannon -1 Contagion Engine, -1 Trinket Mage


yeah, why take out lux when you can shoot their titans and vals? Razz

seas, lux, freeze, and edge is more then enough.



<3
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magicman85



Joined: 22 Aug 2009
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creeping Tar Pit can help you deal with planeswalkers like Koth and Jace, but they will slow you down a little because they come into play tapped.

Inkmoth Nexus may be a good addition to help give you another way to win if you can proliferate their poison counters and you can always make them 5/5 with Tez (but I think they lose infect and stay as 5/5's?)

I'm thinking you SB out the 3 Black Sun Zenith for the extra Contagion Engine, Lux Cannon, and Jace vs UB or UW control. Maybe using Duress in your SB instead would help.
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was testing various versions of this deck for a while, here are a couple things to consider,

Treasure mage is very good for this kind of deck, you can take out a couple contagion clasps for them since they will tutor out your contagion engine, they also tutor out your wurms for the aggro mu, which is really nice.

enclave crytologist is another card worth considering because with proliferate he can become mini jace, however considering that you are also running bsz, this may not be the best idea

grand architect is a fantastic addition because it allows you to ramp VERY quickly, and the mana is immediate, so on turn for you could either play your chalice for 2 or drop an architect and play your chalice for 2 and get a 3/3 trinket/treasure mage.

I've test lux cannons but never really liked them that much, they were kinda slow and took a long time to do damage, possibly explore the spine with throne of geth combo, also spine can be tutored for where lux can not.

another thing to test would be the singleton voltaic key, this card is tutorable, lets you proliferate multiple times, lets you swing with a wurm then untap it for defence, gaining you valuable life and staying back to protect you at the same time, and in this case speeds up your lux cannons considerably. Lastly, it generates mana when combined with everflowing chalice.

as for the sb plans against valakut, why aren't you siding in memoricide? also a couple more effigies might be good as well, especially against eldrazi ramp where they can destroy it with ulamog before you get a chance to pop it.
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Jbeanz



Joined: 06 Dec 2009
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been doing quite a bit of testing with a similar list. Here's where I'm at right now.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [ZEN] Swamp (1a)
4 [MBS] Inkmoth Nexus
5 [ZEN] Island (3a)
2 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
2 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
4 [M11] Drowned Catacomb
4 [WWK] Halimar Depths

// Creatures
2 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [MBS] Treasure Mage

// Spells
4 [M11] Mana Leak
1 [SOM] Tumble Magnet
3 [SOM] Contagion Clasp
3 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
2 [SOM] Throne of Geth
1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
4 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 [MBS] Corrupted Conscience
2 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
1 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
1 [MBS] Spine of Ish Sah
1 [M11] Liliana Vess
1 [SOM] Lux Cannon
2 [M11] Preordain

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MBS] Corrupted Conscience
SB: 1 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
SB: 3 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
SB: 2 [M11] Negate
SB: 2 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 2 [SOM] Stoic Rebuttal
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas


I'm not saying you should copy the list, but a few things to point out.

Tumble Magnet wins games against Shape Anew. Not to mention countless applications against other matchups. But mainly Shape Anew lol.

Jace Beleren Vs. Jace, the Mind Sculptor -

Basically both net you +1 card a turn with their drawing abilities, but I find that I use JTMS other abilities every game. A lot of the time being in very crucial situations. Also, it isn't much of a stretch to get him to 12 counters.

Also, often enough do you have a fresh 3 cards on the top of the deck from shuffling/scry/Tezzeret/Etc that it has a lot more synergy in the deck.

3 casting cost is way better than 4 in a deck which already has so many 4 drops, but I think I'd still go with JTMS.

3 Chalice vs. 4 Chalice -

3 is the way to go. I played 4 for quite a while and soooo many games I had 4 in play doing pretty much nothing.

Even if they get blown up. Trinket Mage is going to die so often since you have few targets for your opponents creature removal. Which makes Elixir of Immortality considerably good. Though, I use JTMS and I'd imagine I would need to sift through my deck quick enough to make that viable. I'm not sure how well it would work out here.

I also SB 3 more Elixir of Immortality with the one MB. I find without them MonoRed and Red/X fast aggro decks just tare me apart.

I also have some questions though (not saying you're wrong in any of the card choices you've made of course, just to better understand how you play the deck).

Why no main board counter spells?

(more to come, need to go quick lol)
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

magicman85 wrote:
Inkmoth Nexus may be a good addition to help give you another way to win if you can proliferate their poison counters and you can always make them 5/5 with Tez (but I think they lose infect and stay as 5/5's?)


I've been suggested these by multiple people, and testing's shown that yeah, two are definitely good enough to main in. The only thing I need to figure out is whether cutting 2 Island (which is what I've currently done) is right, or 1 Island/1 Swamp

As for the Inkmoth question, you are correct. To get the bang for buck, you need to first activate it to get the 1/1 flier with infect, then tezz to make it a 5/5 flier with infect.

aqualad33 wrote:
Treasure mage is very good for this kind of deck, you can take out a couple contagion clasps for them since they will tutor out your contagion engine, they also tutor out your wurms for the aggro mu, which is really nice.


The problem with Treasure Mage is finding room for it. Contagion Clasps definitely say - they are your workhorse, and they pull an incredible amount of weight. Cutting a trinket mage isn't an option, and I'm pretty sure I'd have to cut a wurmcoil engine for it. I wouldn't run more than a miser's in any case.

Quote:
enclave crytologist is another card worth considering because with proliferate he can become mini jace, however considering that you are also running bsz, this may not be the best idea

grand architect is a fantastic addition because it allows you to ramp VERY quickly, and the mana is immediate, so on turn for you could either play your chalice for 2 or drop an architect and play your chalice for 2 and get a 3/3 trinket/treasure mage.


The answer to both of these is exactly what you identified with the cryptologist - removal turns them into dead cards. I agree that Grand Architect is very good, but trinket mage gives far more flexibility.

Quote:
I've test lux cannons but never really liked them that much, they were kinda slow and took a long time to do damage, possibly explore the spine with throne of geth combo, also spine can be tutored for where lux can not.


I think it depends on the build. What I've found is if you draw them when you're already behind they're not the best draw you could've had (which is why I have only a pair), but against control they're just a wrecking ball if they resolve.

Quote:
as for the sb plans against valakut, why aren't you siding in memoricide? also a couple more effigies might be good as well, especially against eldrazi ramp where they can destroy it with ulamog before you get a chance to pop it.


The main reason I haven't been is because I can't find room to cut for it. When you board, you still want to stick as close to the 15 (what I'm calling proliferate's magic number) artifacts. In any case, I've cut Memoricide completely now alongside a Flashfreeze for a triplet of Contaminated Ground, which I'm quite happy with for the moment.

The SB is definitely what needs the most work Smile

JBeanz wrote:
Why no main board counter spells?


Because of how the deck plays, I've found counters to be not what I want except in a few situations. The slots that I would use for counters I'd rather put to different use to supplement what the deck already has.

klodio: on your changes:

It's an interesting step forward Smile If you wanted to add Treasure Mage, I'd recommend cutting a Wurmcoil Engine instead of a Trinket Mage. Trinket Mages are incredibly useful in the deck (and honestly, I'd run four if I could find room for them). How've you found Voltaic Key working out? I pulled it from my version of the deck early on in testing because I found it to be a dead draw in a lot of situations, and I would prefer just to have another chalice.

On Creeping Tar Pit, I've been told by a lot of people that they're a good inclusion. At this stage I won't test them because I want to test other changes to the deck first and work on the SB. If you're actively testing the deck, please tell me how the Tar Pits work out for you Smile

---

Based on my testing, I've got 2 Inkmoth Nexus in at the expense of 2 Islands, which have been working out excellently so far. I've also gone -2 Memoricide -1 Flashfreeze +3 Contaminated Ground for the Valakut matchup, which I still need to test more to determine how useful it is.

Now, as for the maindeck, a possibility is running Myr Battlesphere over Wurmcoil Engine. While it makes the deck slightly less resilient, it also makes Tezzeret's ultimate incredibly relevant. Typically, you drain for 6-10 on Tezzeret. With an online Battlesphere, that becomes 16-20. This I'll be testing next Smile
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aqualad33
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my suggestion is to cut
1 wurmcoil since you can just tutor it, and you wont play him till the 5th turn in either case
1 jace since your control mu is already great, you have 1 in the board as well, and dropping a treasure mage on turn 3 is better then a jace because you get a body and you get to choose between wurmcoil and contagion engine as your draw
1 contagion clasp, I know you love these, and they are your workhorse but now that you can consistently tutor up contagion engine you don't need a full 4 set.

personally I have found treasure mage to be much better then trinket for this deck because it fetches the two best cards in the deck. Got the game under control and need to start proliferating? grab the engine. Getting overwhelmed by aggro, drop him and fetch your wurmcoil engine and chump block.

always a very useful card to play
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dikcoop



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working with this right now.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
3 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [M11] Drowned Catacomb
4 [ROE] Island (3)
2 [ZEN] Swamp (4)
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
2 [WWK] Halimar Depths
2 [MBS] Inkmoth Nexus

// Creatures
2 [SOM] Trinket Mage
2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
1 [MBS] Treasure Mage

// Spells
1 [M11] Voltaic Key
1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
3 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
1 [M11] Jace Beleren
2 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [SOM] Contagion Clasp
1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
3 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
3 [M11] Preordain
2 [M11] Mana Leak
2 [ROE] Deprive
2 [SOM] Lux Cannon
1 [SOM] Stoic Rebuttal
1 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
1 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
SB: 2 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
SB: 1 [M11] Brittle Effigy
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
SB: 3 [WWK] Thada Adel, Acquisitor
SB: 1 [ROE] Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
SB: 2 [ROE] Consume the Meek
SB: 1 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap


The blue sun' s zenith was just to see if it was useful, because on paper it should work. Playtesting has seen it sit in my hand though while I cast more relevant spells. The counterspell suite has been working pretty well for me, just needs to be used against stuff you do not readily have answers for. I have been seeing a lot of wurmcoil engines lately with go for the throat sitting in my hand.

How does everybody else fare against the goblins deck? I just played about 9 games, 8 of them post board. It seemed I could only win on the play, and then I had to play perfectly. Also noted, pop elixirs immediately.

I boarded like this:
-1 voltaic key, -1 mana leak, -2 deprive, -1 stoic rebuttal, -2 lux cannon, +4 spreading seas, +1 wurmcoil engine, +2 elixir
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jetstrike



Joined: 01 Jul 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To some it might be worth mntioning... I find a darksteel axe in the list to be a wonderful thing. While its not super on its own it does make for a nice 5/5 indestructable
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, big update:

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [M11] Drowned Catacomb
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
6 [UNH] Island
2 [ZEN] Swamp (3)
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
2 [MBS] Inkmoth Nexus
2 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit

// Creatures
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
3 [SOM] Myr Battlesphere

// Spells
3 [M11] Jace Beleren
1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
2 [SOM] Lux Cannon
4 [SOM] Contagion Clasp
3 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
3 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
4 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4 [M11] Preordain
1 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
1 [M11] Brittle Effigy
1 [M11] Doom Blade
1 [MBS] Go for the Throat

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOM] Lux Cannon
SB: 1 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
SB: 3 [M11] Flashfreeze
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
SB: 3 [ROE] Contaminated Ground
SB: 3 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb

On the choices:

- Creeping Tar Pit I find to be somewhat inconvenient, but they are useful in certain situations. I'm reasonably happy with two at the moment, but part of me wants to bring it down to a Miser's.

- Inkmoth Nexus was a great pickup by everyone Smile It gives a great extra dimension against control (2 turn clocks Very Happy), and in a pinch they can act as extra artifacts for Tezz.

- Myr Battlesphere is far superior to Wurmcoil Engine for this deck. Battlesphere on its own adds 10 points of drain to Tezz's ultimate, which in most cases is enough to win the game outright (as you can normally get away with swinging with Battlesphere before draining). Against control, they can't Jace-lock it off the board because it's bringing in threats along side it. It can block Primeval Titan all day long, and it takes no less than three Valakut activations to get it off the board. It seems a little strange in a vacuum, but it fits in excellently with this deck.

- I'm currently splitting between Doom Blade and GftT. Doom Blade in a pinch acts as pseudo-removal, which is actually very very good Smile However, Grave Titan is still a threat, especially if you can't take advantage of the tapping low to drain them out with Tezz.

The SB is where the most work has been done.

- Contaminated Ground has actually been impressive in testing. Having acces to 11 land disruption spells is really solid against Valakut, since they only have a finite amount of options to begin with.

- Ratchet Bomb has been nothing short of stellar, and really does lift the aggro matchups post-board. Additionally, they come in really handy for Sun Titan control decks (or any other decks packing Luminarch Ascension).

Next thing I'm going to test is -1 Battlesphere +1 Treasure Mage Smile
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dikcoop



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just won a 8max with this.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [M11] Drowned Catacomb
5 [ROE] Island (3)
2 [ZEN] Swamp (4)
3 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
2 [WWK] Halimar Depths
2 [MBS] Inkmoth Nexus

// Creatures
2 [SOM] Trinket Mage
1 [MBS] Treasure Mage
2 [SOM] Myr Battlesphere

// Spells
1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
3 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
3 [M11] Jace Beleren
4 [SOM] Contagion Clasp
1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
3 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
4 [M11] Preordain
2 [SOM] Lux Cannon
1 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
4 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 [M11] Brittle Effigy

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 [SOM] Lux Cannon
SB: 2 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
SB: 1 [M11] Brittle Effigy
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
SB: 3 [ROE] Contaminated Ground
SB: 3 [M11] Flashfreeze


notes: blue sun's zenith is worthless.

matches: ubw control, gw ramp.

both matches revolved around mana advantage. both games i lost my opponent was able to ramp ahead of me and dominate. not much to say about the control matchup. The gw match hinged on the removal. do not be afraid to kill a t2 overgrown battlement.

sb vs gw:
-2 lux cannon, -1 blue suns zenith, +1 black sun's zenith, +2 flashfreeze. never saw any of it, but it felt right.
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did you find the Halimar Depths? The reason why I've kept the Creeping Tar Pit counts so low is because of how crucial it's been to have lands come in untapped.

As for your SB, i think it's really interesting you've gone with more Elixirs and a second Effigy over the Ratchet Bombs, and I'm intersted in how you find your aggro matchup with them. To be honest, I'm starting to feel a little underwhelmed by the Effigy (although it certainly has its uses in certain matchups).
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dikcoop



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halimar Depths: I am a fan, though I would not play more than 2 based on the same reason as you. Lands definitely need to come into play untapped turns 2-4 or 5.

Elixirs: While I understand the ability to reuse your spells against control, I do not believe there is enough filtering in the deck to make that point relevant enough to board in any against control. However, they shine against the aggro match. I find myself grabbing those the most with trinket mages vs aggro, while I usually grab everflowing chalice vs control. And as for recycling removal, the 4 black sun's zenith's go back to the library by themselves.

Effigy: Meh? I could care less at this point for this card. I think the one main is probably enough.

Changes:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
4 [SOM] Darkslick Shores
4 [M11] Drowned Catacomb
5 [ROE] Island (3)
3 [ZEN] Swamp (4)
3 [WWK] Creeping Tar Pit
2 [WWK] Halimar Depths
2 [MBS] Inkmoth Nexus

// Creatures
3 [SOM] Trinket Mage
2 [SOM] Myr Battlesphere

// Spells
2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
3 [WWK] Everflowing Chalice
3 [M11] Jace Beleren
4 [SOM] Contagion Clasp
1 [SOM] Contagion Engine
3 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
4 [M11] Preordain
2 [SOM] Lux Cannon
1 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
4 [MBS] Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 [M11] Brittle Effigy

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 [MBS] Black Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 [SOM] Lux Cannon
SB: 2 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spreading Seas
SB: 3 [ROE] Contaminated Ground
SB: 2 [M11] Flashfreeze
SB: 1 [SOM] Ratchet Bomb


Other points:

Little jace: Absolutely the right one. With the number of lands that come into play tapped, you cannot guarantee a JtMS b4 turn 5, where as I was able to drop this t3 every time I had him in my hand. Possibly a 4th in the board? need to pre-empt JtMS from opponents.

Treasure mage: Not sure about this guy. Needs more playtesting imo. I don't draw him often enough, and when I do, I usually have a battlesphere or the engine in my hand already. Probably gonna go back to a 3rd trinket.

Myr Battlesphere: def better than wurmcoil engine.
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Weedmonkey



Joined: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 324

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baby Jace: I can't remember why I took the fourth out of the board to begin with XD I know I did it because of the Ratchet Bombs, but I can't remember what justification I was making for it. I think the fourth should definitely be SBed.

Treasure Mage: I know from my testing I'm not sold on it yet. The most significant problem I've found is that using Treasure Mage to fetch Myr Battlesphere always lets them on to what you're trying to do over the next X turns. While Tezz does do the same thing, Tezz ALSO does a shitload of other things too (like...winning the game). That being said, the biggest drawcard for Treasure Mage is finding that miser's Contagion Engine (which is almightily useful late-game), but as to whether that's enough for it to deserve a slot on its own...
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dikcoop



Joined: 01 Mar 2006
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

late game if you haven't drawn the engine you should have multiple clasps.
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