Magic-League.com Forum Index Magic-League.com
Forums of Magic-League: Free Online tcg playing; casual or tournament play.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Judge Ruling


Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Rulings
Author Message
dt



Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sven - here are the relevant sections of the Magic Rules, for your reference.


409.1. Playing a spell or activated ability follows the steps listed below, in order. If, at any point during the playing of a spell or ability, a player is unable to comply with any of the steps listed below, the spell was played illegally; the game returns to the moment before that spell or ability was played (see rule 422, “Handling Illegal Actions”). Announcements and payments can’t be altered after they’ve been made.

409.1a The player announces that he or she is playing the spell or activated ability. It moves from the zone it’s in to the stack and remains there until it’s countered or resolves. In the case of spells, the physical card goes onto the stack. In the case of activated abilities, the ability goes onto the stack without any card associated with it. If the ability is being played from a hidden zone, the card with that ability is revealed. Each spell has all the characteristics of the card associated with it. Each activated ability on the stack has the text of the ability that created it, and no other characteristics. The controller of a spell is the player who played the spell. The controller of an activated ability is the player who played the ability.

409.1b If the spell or ability is modal (uses the phrase “Choose one —,” “Choose two —,”or “[specified player] chooses one —”), the player announces the mode choice. If the player wishes to splice any cards onto the spell (see rule 502.40), he or she reveals those cards in his or her hand. If the spell or ability has a variable mana cost (indicated by {X}) or some other variable cost, the player announces the value of that variable at this time. If the spell or ability has alternative, additional, or other special costs (such as buyback, kicker, or convoke costs), the player announces his or her intentions to pay any or all of those costs (see rule 409.1f). You can’t apply two alternative methods of playing or two alternative costs to a single spell or ability. Previously made choices (such as choosing to play a spell with flashback from his or her graveyard or choosing to play a creature with morph face down) may restrict the player’s options when making these choices.

409.1c If the spell or ability requires any targets, the player first announces how many targets he or she will choose (if the spell or ability has a variable number of targets), then announces the targets themselves. A player can’t play a spell or ability unless he or she chooses the required number of legal targets. The same target can’t be chosen multiple times for any one instance of the word “target” on the spell or ability. If the spell or ability uses the word “target” in multiple places, the same object, player, or zone can be chosen once for each instance of the word “target” (as long as it fits the targeting criteria).



413.2a If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target that’s moved out of the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it was in, its last known information is used during this process to determine its characteristics. The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not countered, it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is illegal, the spell or ability can’t perform any actions on it or make the target perform any actions.
Example: Aura Blast is a white instant that reads, “Destroy target enchantment. Draw a card.” If the enchantment isn’t a legal target during Aura Blast’s resolution (say, if it has gained protection from white or left play), then Aura Blast is countered. Its controller doesn’t draw a card.
Example: Plague Spores reads, “Destroy target nonblack creature and target land. They can’t be regenerated.” Suppose the same animated land is chosen both as the nonblack creature and as the land, and the color of the creature land is changed to black before Plague Spores resolves. Plagues Spores isn’t countered because the black creature land is still a legal target for the “target land” part of the spell.
Back to top
Conkisstador



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 543

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Profane Command, unlike the other 4, need to have legal targets for all of it's effects. If you both run creatureless decks he will NEVER be able to cast command.

Playing a spell:

-Announce the spell
-choose all modes (charms, commands)
-declare all targets (you must choose for all)
-Lock costs, then pay for them (you can announce thoughtcast with 4 artifacts and use the star to pay for the U)
-Put spell on the stack
Back to top
mickg42



Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is a prerelease not a pro level tourney so the judge have done good work. In my place judge would have warned you to be unfair.
Isay it again it's a prerelease
Back to top
billjoar



Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay... im only going to say this one more time.

I understand how profane command works... why doesnt anyone get that through their fucking skull. the point of the thread is to flame the judge, not tell me how profane command works.
Back to top
YTheAlien



Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conkisstador wrote:
Profane Command, unlike the other 4, need to have legal targets for all of it's effects. If you both run creatureless decks he will NEVER be able to cast command.


Yes he can, and the reason why has already been stated in this thread.
Back to top
MistyFatDog



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

was the name of the judge aaron cutler?

Wink
Back to top
NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

svenihilator wrote:
okay... im only going to say this one more time.

I understand how profane command works... why doesnt anyone get that through their fucking skull. the point of the thread is to flame the judge, not tell me how profane command works.

No you really didn't understand. First you said the spell fizzled, wrong. Then you ASKED why a card like Decimate couldn't be played blah, blah, blah. So don't get all pissy when people answer the question you asked, and please don't fucking pretend you already knew everything posted so far when everyone knows you didn't.
Back to top
dt



Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

svenihilator wrote:
okay... im only going to say this one more time.

I understand how profane command works... why doesnt anyone get that through their fucking skull. the point of the thread is to flame the judge, not tell me how profane command works.


actually, I'm sorry, but the way you're acting over this indicates that you do NOT know how profane command works.

I think, based on the things which you have said in this thread, that the judge made the correct ruling.

SO let's go through this.

svenihilator wrote:
okay so im at the prerelease, currently in a match. My opponent casts a profane command for 5 or something, with me at 5 life. he chooses to make me lose five life and for my creature to get -x/-x. I didnt actually control a creature so i told my opponent that the spell fizzled because he didnt choose a legal target. He called a judge and the judge ruled in favor of my opponent saying that only 50% of a spell has to work for a spell not to fizzle. So my question is: why can't a player play a card like decimate if all the targets aren't there but a player can play a profane command if all the targets arent there?


I understand from your other posts that
* You were on 5 life
* there were no creatures in play.


So, your opponent has profane command. They want to play it for x=5.
If we're being really anal and absolutely correct about playing the profane command spell, what happens is:



Your opponent announces his/her intention to cast profane command for x=5.
(Rule 409.1a)

Your opponent chooses the modes in which the command will operate.
In this case, since there are no creatures in play, your opponent is not able to choose the "target creature gets -x/-x" mode, since there are no legal targets.
It isn't that your opponent can choose this and then "the spell fizzles" because there's no target - your opponent can never choose it in the first place. This is in rule 409.1c ("A player can’t play a spell or ability unless he or she chooses the required number of legal targets.")

Your opponent chooses "Target player loses X life" and... whatever, it doesn't matter if they choose to return a creature from their graveyard (assuming there is one there) or if they choose to give up to X creatures fear.

your opponent can choose to give 0 target creatures fear even if your command has been played for 5, since it says "up to".


The reason this is different to decimate, is that decimate requires four targets, and is not modal, i.e you have 0 choice in how decimate is played. It always has to target one creature, one land, one enchantment and one artifact.



So back to the judging question; your opponent announced profane command using the "lose X life" mode and "creature gets -x/-x" mode. the two of you then called for a judge.
The correct way for a judge to handle this is to say that is an illegal play, because there are no targets for the "creature gets -x/-x" mode, and to back the game state up to the point where profane command has been announced, but modes have not been chosen.
I'm afraid to say that the Judge did the correct thing and so using this thread to try and flame him isn't going to work...
Back to top
wyvernmonarc



Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"or up to X target creatures gain fear until end of turn"

just do that for u and blast ur face u lose, stop crying
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Rulings All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All content on this page may not be reproduced without consent of Magic-League Directors.
Magic the Gathering is TM and copyright Wizards of the Coast, Inc, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved.


About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy