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B/R Aggro


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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject: B/R Aggro Reply with quote

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [M10] Dragonskull Summit
4 [ZEN] Teetering Peaks
7 [M10] Swamp (1)
5 [M10] Mountain (1)
2 [ZEN] Akoum Refuge

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
4 [CFX] Kederekt Parasite
4 [ZEN] Guul Draz Vampire
4 [CFX] Viashino Slaughtermaster

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Vampire's Bite
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt
4 [M10] Burning Inquiry
4 [M10] Sign in Blood
4 [ALA] Blightning
2 [M10] Megrim

Bite/Teetering peaks work well with Slaughtermaster, and its him not Matron because matron is RR not 1R.

Inquiry/Blood work well with Parasite.

Megrim works well with blight/inquiry.

tell me if you agree too many lands that come into play tapped in this deck might just hurt it more

I posted this here because I really like it, ive played it but not playtested it against all the decks, havent played Jund yet. Beat Mill, beat naya, beat contol, that is in the games that I played against random MWS opponents. No RDW yet either.
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PenguinSlave



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont believe any deck you post here,ever.its a pile of crap,i can see it by looking at it,i dont need to test that
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide GOOD CARD
4 [CFX] Kederekt Parasite BAD CARD
4 [ZEN] Guul Draz Vampire BAD CARD
4 [CFX] Viashino Slaughtermaster BAD CARD

// Spells
4 [ZEN] Vampire's Bite BAD CARD
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt GOOD CARD
4 [M10] Burning Inquiry BAD CARD
4 [M10] Sign in Blood GOOD CARD
4 [ALA] Blightning GOOD CARD
2 [M10] Megrim BAD CARD

Try again, without the bad cards.

Other than that, I like that you are thinking of synergy and that you have 22 lands (the curve of the deck is very low so that is fine).

Unfortunately, synergy doesn't make up for lack of card power of this magnitude.
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HujuVanikil



Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because you haven't seen a card be overused like BSA doesn't mean its bad. Vampires bite is sick and very underrated and in this deck could give you the edge. With that said I'd suggest running bloodchief ascension over megrim, easy to get active with red burn.
I'd take out guul draz and stick in burst lightning. viashino is okay esp with bite I like the combo especially kicked would be vicious. Burning inquiry is tough as most of the time it is not worth playing unless you get an active bloodchief or megrim, but megrim is just as often a dead card. Also keep in mind burning inquiry can be pseudo card draw and disrupt if you keep your extra lands in hand and wait til they are down to 2-3cards will often make them discard their bombs.

Anyway cool deck idea hope to see a more focused version in the future.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vedrfolner,

I think your mentality is too simplistic if you think standard is compared of only 50 or so "good" cards and the rest is completely unplayable. That's not how good decks get built, by ignoring huge swaths of the existing card pool.

Then again, WOTC is taking a very heavy authoritarian hand with magic these days and basically printing 50 good cards and 500 bad cards and letting those creative players figure how which cards to combine with 4 BSA into their "awesome" deck.

/rant
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, there are some cards that make each other so much better when used together that they make up for the lack of card power one by one.

But when that synergy is disrupted, all you have left is shit.

You attack with Slaughtermaster, he blocks, you pump him with a kicked Vampire's Bite, he responds with a Lightning Bolt. Or a Burst Lightning, or a Path to Exile, or an Into the Roil, or a Disfigure, or whatever instant removal the deck is packing (all the good ones have them). The thing is that you can't assume that your 16 creatures aren't killed, and that you are allowed to Peak or Bite your weenies. More often than not, you will find that you have a couple of 1/1's in play and 2-3 cards in hand that are facing two 3/3's, one 3/2 and a 5/4 creature and the opponent have 4-5 cards in hand still. You at 17, he at 12-13.

This is not because pumping a doublestriker with Peaks and Vampire's Bite doesn't work - it is a good strategy.... when you get both and when the opponent doesn't have creature removal (in hand). It is the two latter "if's" that is the card power argument. Their Ranger of Eos' and Wooly Thoctars manage fine by themselves. Your Slaughtermasters and Kederekt Parasites does not.
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bloodchief > Megrim but neither is great.
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HujuVanikil



Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vedrfolner wrote:
You attack with Slaughtermaster, he blocks, you pump him with a kicked Vampire's Bite, he responds with a Lightning Bolt. Or a Burst Lightning, or a Path to Exile, or an Into the Roil, or a Disfigure, or whatever instant removal the deck is packing (all the good ones have them). The thing is that you can't assume that your 16 creatures aren't killed, and that you are allowed to Peak or Bite your weenies.


I'd wait til he tapped out before playing bite, this strategy takes some thought process unlike jund whose strategy is to play whatever and hope for the best.

So lets say you went first, 2nd turn you played your dbl strike and he played a leech. t3 you drop a peeks and swing in, is he going to block? Probably not, in this case you play a bite and get in for 12 damage. Throw in a lightning bolt with your leftover mana and you just did 15 damage on turn 3, pretty damn good. You know your creatures will die, that's the current meta, its milking them for all they got at the correct opprotunity that will put you ahead.
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, why wouldn't he block? I would take an apparent 1 for 1 in the first few turns against a deck running peaks any day. Especially if you have black mana and not red open. Second, playing any card with obvious drawbacks is going to require more strategy but I am not sure the fact that it combos well with one card in your deck makes it worth playing.

kaamos wrote:

Bite/Teetering peaks work well with Slaughtermaster, and its him not Matron because matron is RR not 1R.


Did you mean Instigator?
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HujuVanikil wrote:
Vedrfolner wrote:
You attack with Slaughtermaster, he blocks, you pump him with a kicked Vampire's Bite, he responds with a Lightning Bolt. Or a Burst Lightning, or a Path to Exile, or an Into the Roil, or a Disfigure, or whatever instant removal the deck is packing (all the good ones have them). The thing is that you can't assume that your 16 creatures aren't killed, and that you are allowed to Peak or Bite your weenies.


I'd wait til he tapped out before playing bite, this strategy takes some thought process unlike jund whose strategy is to play whatever and hope for the best.

So lets say you went first, 2nd turn you played your dbl strike and he played a leech. t3 you drop a peeks and swing in, is he going to block? Probably not, in this case you play a bite and get in for 12 damage. Throw in a lightning bolt with your leftover mana and you just did 15 damage on turn 3, pretty damn good. You know your creatures will die, that's the current meta, its milking them for all they got at the correct opprotunity that will put you ahead.


A 3/1 doublestriker will certainly be blocked by a Leech. I would, at least. If you wait until he is tapped out before pumping, you will deal 2 damage at best with your doublestriker most of the time.

The thing is that if anyone see a 1/1 double striker, they KNOW he is going to be pumped and play accordingly. The problem isn't that you can't deal lethal damage by turn 3-4, because the deck can do that. The problem is that relying on 1/1's that is going to get pumped by spells is a strategy that requires several conditions to be met at a stage where you have only drawn like 10 cards. You need the right land, you need the right creature and you need the right spell. The deck plays like a combo deck rather than aggro. A combo deck with no way to ensure consistency other than luck.

If he removed the Burning Inquiry and Megrim "tech", which isn't worth the 6 slots, and added more ways to pump and more small, fast creatures, the deck would be improved. But it won't consistently win games against the real decks and real players.
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
kaamos wrote:

Bite/Teetering peaks work well with Slaughtermaster, and its him not Matron because matron is RR not 1R.


Did you mean Instigator?

I keep thinking of Goblin Matron because she was the only goblin that got- other goblins back in the day, I couldnt remember the name of this one without looking at it.
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HujuVanikil



Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Posts: 173

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insom wrote:
First, why wouldn't he block? I would take an apparent 1 for 1 in the first few turns against a deck running peaks any day. Especially if you have black mana and not red open. Second, playing any card with obvious drawbacks is going to require more strategy but I am not sure the fact that it combos well with one card in your deck makes it worth playing.

kaamos wrote:

Bite/Teetering peaks work well with Slaughtermaster, and its him not Matron because matron is RR not 1R.


Did you mean Instigator?


its not a 1 for 1 when anyone has red or black mana open. pay 2 life in response bolt etc. I guess it was a bad example as its debateable whether or not to block, you'd net 2 life out of your peeks even if they blocked and you let both die. But my point is that you can have very explosive turns with this kind of deck.

I totally agree the tech isn't really worth it as its sooo difficult to get a megrim deck to work. However I'm a fan of bloodchief and it can hose a lot of people who underestimate it, its really not hard to get active and punishes them for playing any spell.
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The creatures here actually have a range of use in my mind:

Guide: Haste, early game

Viashino: Doublestrike, if he hits, he hits before they drop creatures.

Kedrekt: the combo creature, after creatures drop, he does damage without attacking

Gull Draz: hits em unblocked when theyre under 11 health.


Inquiry is always a topic of discussion, but if kedrekt is out, then its a card advantage lightening bolt, if megrim is out, its two lightening bolts, and if your too lucky, its both or more.

Now if we get around to creating a sideboard, it will probably have terminate, and versus a deck with fast creatures itll have something like pyroclasm, and if it has baneslayers, itll have terminates/doomblades.

In terms of pumping creatures, Gull draz unblockable is also a good creature to pump if he makes it through after 10 health, dont you think?

When I say inquiry card advantage, I mean lands after 3 to 4 are in play, to discard.

This deck hopes* to only need a couple creatures to bring its opponent down to 10, and getting that heavy hit again after they tap out.

You see this double strike pump tech and you think thats all the deck has got. I wish I could playtest more to verify the 2 card strength this deck has against more of the metagame right now.

I suppose since all the tournaments that are open to everyone for the current format are over (right?) then it doesnt matter until i can make the necessary changes with the new cards coming in (feb?)

If theres a regionals though, ill definitelly play this, why?
Because its MINE, and its affordable :p
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This deck rocks.
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