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Naya Deck Wins



 
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loki3



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject: Naya Deck Wins Reply with quote

I decided to tweak the Naya Lightsaber Deck that won worlds to make it better!?! There isn't a lot of creativity in this build, just a smashing of RDW with Naya Lightsaber and a fixing of the mana base... but I do explain why the deck is good (and why I built it).

Essentially, I keep Naya Lightsaber midrange, but make it more aggressive and much harder to deal with. I was also really tired of cascading into so many weak creatures. As before, the big creatures require 2 burn spells to kill, and it has really nice late game topdecks, like before, but better.

Ranger of Eos was nice, but not aggressive enough for my taste. And Wild Nacatal is at best a 3/3, and a pretty vanilla creature that can get removed easily (i.e. bolt - or burst lightning the turn before), doesn't bring beats quickly, and can't pop back from the graveyard. I switched these (and the solo Scute Mob) out for Hellspark Elemental and Hell's Thunder and an extra land. These creatures are fast, have evasion (trample, flying) and are nice, hasty, 2-for-1 cards with unearth. Unearth is especially nice when drawing dead or late game for the win. The deck usually handles a single Blightning fine, and the unearth guys really help balance out some of the losses if you get blighted twice (or once, for that matter).

A typical draw sees: BBE into something damaging - a bolt or something hasty (i.e. Hell's Thunder), swing with those and a Woolly Thoctar to win on turn 5-6 as you either cast bolts or paths to remove creatures from the board or unearth/cast a hellspark.
Either that or something similar to the way RDW wins, with unearths and beats. (It could theoretically win as early as 4, but lots of decks can if the opponent does nothing...). And it is definitely robust enough to win later, too. (BBE into Woolly Thoctar is also solid).


Overall, right now in the meta, the major decks I see to contend with are Jund (without Leech), and RDW. This deck does really well against Jund (by usually forcing Jund to race - Jund loses the race) and it has a pretty good match-up with RDW. I'm not saying that it destroys the field, but testing it has definitely shown me that it has the best numbers right now... or at least I think so.. the numbers may be biased, hence the poll. Against other decks like fog and crypt, it basically just wins before they really do anything.

Quote:
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
5 [ZEN] Forest (4)
4 [M10] Sunpetal Grove
4 [M10] Rootbound Crag
3 [ZEN] Plains (7)
5 [ZEN] Mountain (7)
4 [ZEN] Arid Mesa

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Woolly Thoctar
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
4 [ARB] Bloodbraid Elf
4 [M10] Baneslayer Angel
4 [CFX] Hellspark Elemental
4 [ALA] Hell's Thunder

// Spells
3 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant
4 [M10] Lightning Bolt
4 [CFX] Path to Exile

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Ajani Vengeant (Is there better?)
SB: 4 [ZEN] Goblin Ruinblaster
SB: 4 [M10] Great Sable Stag (Volcanic Fallout/Wrath instead?)
SB: 2 [ZEN] Burst Lightning (Is there better?)
SB: 4 [CFX] Celestial Purge (Is there better?)



I'm thinking of removing BSA and/or Ajani from the main deck and replacing it with a cheaper mana-costing card that has versatility or power, but is just faster. BSA is rarely needed... and neither is Ajani, but late game, they can be the game changer that wins... So for now... I think I'll keep them in the deck as they are some of the best cards in the format...

Additional Options:
    Naya Charm (Not good enough... if it could only target players too it would be viable).
    Mycoid Shepard
    Captured Sunlight - this might actually be better than BSA... the race is always a close one with Jund and RDW and an extra 4 life + the possibility to cascade into 3-4 damage is really attractive. Maybe I should include this in the sideboard.
    Ball Lightning - but it is sooo red... to include this I might want to cut Noble Heirarch and swap two non-red lands for mountains...
    Lightning Helix... if only it were legal... maybe in WWK? ...but probably not Sad


// Sideboard 2 for testing
SB: 4 [ZEN] Goblin Ruinblaster
SB: 4 [ARB] Captured Sunlight
SB: 4 [CFX] Celestial Purge
SB: 3 [CFX] Volcanic Fallout


As always, sorry for the monster post...
Criticism, critique, and suggestions are welcome (and wanted)!


Last edited by loki3 on Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tao



Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutting Ranger of Eos and Wild Nacatl is a terrible idea. Ranger of Eos is insane - 4 mana for 9 power of doods.
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kaamos



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Normal Naya would beat this because its creatures remain as yours might be pathed out early game.

Its a difficult deck to improve, good work and keep testing.
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PenguinSlave



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

''Ranger of Eos was nice, but not aggressive enough for my taste. And Wild Nacatal is at best a 3/3, and a pretty vanilla creature that can get removed easily''
that is where i stopped reading
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In general most players are best served by copying a deck built by a superior deck builder with more play testing time and running that.

The fact that you're posting this here asking for opinions tells me that you are neither a good deck builder nor have sufficient time to play test.

If you were, you'd have already tested the deck 20 matches against every popular archetype and could report win percentages based upon that testing.

Therefore, you fall into the category of player that is best served by net decking something from magic league or world's and hoping for the best.
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TaKK



Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Naya Deck Wins" is an oxymoron.
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loki3



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeez... lotsa hate for me it seems. (I wrote the post earlier today, and have been doing hw and testing for a few hours)



After further testing, it looks like I may have made the matchup against RDW slightly worse because of less early blockers. It is still hard to tell. I will continue testing.

It looks like I made the matchup with Jund slightly better. But I still have to test it more.



Note: I know Ranger of Eos is good, but I was trying something DIFFERENT, because I didn't think it was good enough. And Ranger of Eos usually can't be cast until turns 5-6 against RDW, which is usually when they are trying to win by. If you land a Thoctor against them, and have sufficient removal, you can usually stick around to play the RoE. And Wild Nacatal is good, but it rarely gets to 3/3 in the Lightsaber deck till turn 5/6/7 and 2-3 toughness creatures are just not that threatening. I was trying to exploit BBE a bit more and try to find a new deck. No harm in trying. And modifying an already good deck is a great place to start. I'm not incompetent, just experimental. It's not like I'm trying to play Gatekeeper of Malakir in my Jund deck.

Maybe you guys are all right and this build is not the right one to play, but it still has some merit to it. I'll keep trying. Because that's what I do. I'm just trying to see what tweaks can be made to improve the matchups against RDW and Jund.
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loki3



Joined: 07 Nov 2009
Posts: 139

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be worth it if you win immediately.

6 power haste could be better than 9 power not haste if it wins the game immediately. Or BBE into Ball Lightning. for four mana.

If you don't win immediately, or at least soon, RoE would be better.
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SugarShark wrote:
imma post a decklist where I change 1 card and call it mine

at least when I made a zoo deck and called it mine. I added Rise//Fall, mana tithe, and stifle; more than 10 cards.

"tweak" does not equal "yours"


I claim David Howard's rdw deck adding Slave of Bolas to the side.
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SJM



Joined: 17 Apr 2009
Posts: 415

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I replaced 1 swamp with a forest in Pros-Bloom. I claim that deck as my own invention now.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you took what made this deck good and made it bad, no offense. This deck won with Ranger of Eos card advantage and Mana-to-Power ratio of creatures being really high. Also I think the deck is actually the same speed, if not slower now. Just because a creature has haste doesn't mean the deck is faster for it, it means that he probably won't block against more aggressive decks that you need him to block against. Also, the old version didn't have much mana to waste, but you seem to think so by playing hell fire and the 3/1.
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