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Tutor Ruling

Reply to topic Forum Index -> Magic Rulings
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You absolutely do not have to name the card when you use Diabolic Tutor. You do not have to name it after you decide, and you do not have to have a card in mind before you pick up your deck to look. If you wanted to find a Phyrexian Obliterator, but couldn't find one, it's still fine to get something else and it's no one else's business that you did that.
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MikeReaper wrote:

I won't name names, but it was a level 5 Judge that made that declaration. Since I am new here may I ask a few questions?

Are you a judge?
If so, What level are you? And
May I print this out to prove a point?

I'm not a DCI certified judge, but I am a ML judge(level 1). The qualifications for the 2 are comparable. If someone told you they were a level 5 judge, they were almost certainly lying to you unless you were playing at a pro tour and he was the head judge. You are welcome to print anything I say in a public forum.
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Level 2 Judge

Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 260

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL A Level 5 judge would definitely not make a casual ruling like this...Diabolic Tutor does not require you to name or search for a certain card, so you can choose anything you would like.

You do not have to declare the card while searching your library to anyone. You must simply identify the card by removing it from your library and resolve the spell as written.

Just can anyone logically look for something that isn't there and how would anyone else know about it...-__-
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Joined: 09 Jun 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the card would work the way you apparently think it does it would be worded like: "Name a card. Then search your library for that card, and then shuffle your library."
In that case you would have to look for the named card. If you dont find the card however the spell does not fizzle it just resolves without you finding the card.
Also you dont have to find a card, if you dont want to.
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Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How did this random person, who apparently knows nothing about Magic(even if you searched and decided to find nothing, the term "fizzle" would not apply), end up making a ruling on your game in the first place?

If this person is not a judge at your specific event, you can tell him to go **** himself. If he is a judge at your event, I suggest you speak to whoever organizes the event and point out both the incorrect ruling and the threat to disqualify you.

If you haven't figured it out already ML stands for Magic League, the place you are asking for help at.
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Joined: 14 Jan 2012
Posts: 165

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this "judge" is the shop owner, then you're out of luck.

701.15c If a player is searching a hidden zone simply for a quantity of cards, such as “a card” or “three cards,” that player must find that many cards (or as many as possible, if the zone doesn’t contain enough cards).
701.15d If the effect that contains the search instruction doesn’t also contain instructions to reveal the found card(s), then they’re not revealed.

You do have to find a card (if possible) from your library, but you do not have to reveal it. Requiring you to name a card before searching for it would effectively reveal your card.
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Level 4 Judge

Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a level 3 on Magic-League and also a level 1 in real life, soon to be testing for level 2. LuckyDucky has quoted the correct piece of rules for what you are looking for.
This person at your store is telling you inaccurate information and is also being abusive. If they are a judge at all (or even a tournament organizer), I recommend that you contact the DCI about their behavior, as this is a bad representative for the game.
I also quickly looked up the list of the 4 level 5 judges in the world. You can find this list by simply going to and signing in.
The list of current level 5 judges are: Toby Elliott of California, Jason Lemahieu of Wisconsin, Scott Marshall of Colorado, and Riccardo Tessitori of Italy.
I have spoken with each of these judges before and they are not the type to act the way this person is acting towards you.
Hope this helps you out.

p.s. you are fully allowed to print out any or all of this response if you wish to show to this person.
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Joined: 31 Oct 2011
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reminds me of my first time at the new LGS I play at. I used to play at a huge shop packed with spikes and money cards to a 6-9 person tournament with only 2 decent players. It is still really fun because everyone knows everyone on a first name basis and it is only 5$ for fnm and everyone gets a pack (prizes are just for the foils which is pretty easy to get when there are only two other serious decks and they give 2 out randomly and to top2)

Anyway, the +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters canceling eachother out came up, and I was 100% sure they negated because I personally have played with finks+jund charm tricks on the pro tour (Amsterdam).The judge/owner just wasn't hearing it and was slowly getting angry at me for insisting he was wrong. I just had to let it go because I didn't want to make enemies and it didn't matter for the game at all. Their logic is that what I was saying was for sure not true because that would be too good with undying and persist and everyone agreed, I felt like I was in the twilight zone.

The right thing to do I realized is to print out the relevant rules and talk to the owner about it sometime not in front of everyone. He probably just didn't want to look like a bad judge.

Overly frustrating moment though for real, it is like being forced to accept that 1+1=3
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