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Angelfire vs. Dredge

Reply to topic Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:38 pm    Post subject: Angelfire vs. Dredge Reply with quote

I've been playing this deck since City Champs' "This Girl" and I think I've got it tweaked just right for Regionals. I was scared of blood/magus of the moon and detritivore, but I was able to pump my basic land count, adjusted some maindeck stuff to make sure I beat gruul, I have a sideboard plan to wreck Dralnu and a chance to actually beat D-storm with sideboard tech (Martyr of Sands)...but I have yet to play the dredge matchup. Can Angelfire win this matchup normally in game one? I have 4 Martyr sideboard to gain life and get rid of bridges, and 2 tormod's that enough hate? I'll post the list if you want, I'm going to FNM to get a better feel for playing my changes but I'm very confident in my deck list right now, just not sure about the dredge matchup. Any advice appreciated.
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Joined: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:43 pm    Post subject: post your list... Reply with quote

post your list
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Creatures: 11
4 Court Hussar
4 Lightning Angel
2 Numot, the Devastator
1 Aeon Chronicler

Spells: 20
4 Remand
4 Wrath of God
4 Lightning Helix
4 Compulsive Research
2 Faith's Fetters
2 Demonfire

Signets: 6
3 Boros Signet
3 Azorius Signet

Lands: 23
1 Urza's Factory
2 Boros Garrison
3 Sacred Foundry
3 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Nimbus Maze
5 Plains
5 Island

4 Martyr of Sands
4 Riptide Pilferer
2 Disenchant
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Detritivore

About the maindeck: you can argue Hellkite over Numot and Aeon, but I like them both. Aeon gives you long game card advantage against other aggro-control decks like the mirror and solar flare, and even Dralnu, he comes into play with you untapped to Remand their cancel or rewind. He also gets very big. Numot is good for the a-c mirror, is cheaper than Hellkite so possibly has a better chance of resolving, and it's white, so it helps martyr of sands post-board.

I used to play the standard 4 Demonfire, and even though Commandeer isn't as popular anymore, Demonfire is often slow, and Faith's Fetters gives me a slight edge I need to beat Gruul game 1, as well as being useful in the a-c mirror, and not COMPLETELY dead against Dralnu. (I should wreck Dralnu games 2-3 anyway)

The lands took some tweaking, basically I cut the 2-4 Flagstones of Trokair you typically have (depending on if you play Bust // Boom) and made them Plains, changed Adarkar Wastes to Nimbus Maze (def. a good move), and cut karoos for more basics - 4 karoos is a major liability with LD and ghost quarter and blood / magus of the moon. I have been testing lots of games and have yet to be manascrewed. I realized I can go a lot lighter on the red because I don't need it until the late game - early helixes can be good but typically I'm setting up my board the first tour turns with Remands, Signets, Compulsives/Hussars into Wrath. No red there. I may end up removing 1 Azorius Signet for 1 Boros Signet, just in case. Also, post-board I need blue and white immediately for Martyr/Pilferer.

The sideboard:
DRAGONSTORM: game 1 is probably a loss, my only chance in any game is to gain enough life to survive the dragons, then wrath them. Helix and Fetters aren't quite enough to do this, but post-board Martyr makes me laugh at them if I get it off, and I bring in Riptide Pilferer also to try and get at their hand.
+4 Riptide Pilferer, +4 Martyr of Sands, -1 Aeon Chronicler, -1 Numot, -2 Demonfire, -4 Remand

Taking out Remand may seem silly but I'm expecting EOT gigadrowses anyway, and I'd still fake the Remand if necessary.
I'm tempted to bring in Disenchant to hit the bloom on their upkeep, and it helps martyr, but I dunno what to take out, except maybe lightning angels. Court Hussar seems like I could take it out too but I need to dig for the martyr and the wrath. I'm not 100% sure on this boarding plan, so suggestions welcome. This and dredge are tough calls.

Dredge: The sbing plan is straightforward: +4 Martyr of Sands, +2 Tormod's Crypt -4 Remand -2 Demonfire. I'm just wondering if it's enough; I haven't played the new version yet. Martyr in resp to Narcomoeba coming into play will hopefully get rid of the bridge (from what I understand, responding to dread return means they still get tokens because the saccing is part of playing the spell, not resolution). Then I survive what I can and wrath them, and have crypts for backup that I hopefully draw, I'd like to go 3-4, but I'm hesitant to play no disenchant effects at all.

Dralnu: Much better matchup than it used to be thanks to planar board +4 Riptide Pilferer, +3 Detritivore -2 Faith's Fetters -4 Lightning Helix -1 Wrath of God and it's looking good for me.

Gruul: Maindeck Fetters helps a lot, not much to do in the sideboard here besides the obvious -4 Remand +4 Martyr of Sands.

UR Tron: same as dralnu, tougher matchup though, hopefully elementals won't block my pilferers, makes me wonder if I should play them as morphs first...

Angelfire/Solar Flare/RBW Firemane/etc: Nothing much to bring in here except Detritivore, maybe Pilferer against non-blue, but Pilferer sucks against Court Hussar....I take out Lightning Helix. If I suspect Fetters or COP:Red, bring in Disenchant too.

For UR Tron, and the a-c mirror I'm thinking of possibly changing Disenchant to Return to Dust, so I could take out two signets also and further attack their mana with that, Detritivore, and Numot.

Like I said my main concern is the dredge matchup and how to sideboard d-storm.
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Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dredge is a very favorable matchup if you play correctly. Hussar, helix, remand, and wrath are your most relevant cards. Most of the time you're going to want to try to play hussar without the white to remove the bridges in their yard. They have to have two bridges to beat you and resolve a dread return if they're playing the glass cannon version. Fetters helps a little with assorted random grave-trolls in the standard ubg builds, and tormod's crypt is quite good as a singleton to transmute for (Tolaria West is very good in this deck, transmuting for sunhome, factory, flagstones, gq, crypt, and possibly a 1-of pact of negation, as well as mana-fixing).

Demonfire is very mediocre in both aggro and control matchups. The deck is rarely hellbent. BoomBust is also mediocre against aggro, but is a lot better against midrange decks and control decks than demonfire.

Some builds are maindecking detritivore in light of all the control and mirror matchups.

The blue mana is way more important in the early game than the red/white. You'll want to go 4/2 at the minimum on azorius/boros signets.

Numot is rarely better than hellkite unless you're curving into it at six mana. If you're going to play two dragons, you're better off playing hellkites that cause x-for-1s when they come into play rather than risking numot getting hit by spot removal.
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the ideas.

Tolaria West into gq, flag, sunhome, etc is an interesting idea but I just got through taking out all of those cards to avoid being land-wrecked. I may try 1, since I can still transmute for factory.

I hadn't thought of Hussar without white - that's pretty brilliant, thanks.

I see where you're coming about the signets, but I have 15 blue mana sources to get online by turns 2-3, so I think I'm good there. I will probably just leave them as-is.

I am very often curving into Hellkite at 6, and I'm not hitting 8 mana as quickly or as often now with only 2 karoos. I may consider 1 Numot, 1 Hellkite or something like that.

I know I'm not always hellbent, but in the a-c matchups where they really only have Remand, Demonfire shines as a way out of a bad board position to just win randomly. I'm not sure what I'd put here instead. I'm not intending to use Boom // Bust again, I tried it and never felt like it was useful, I could only play it when I was already winning, and I was constantly having my flagstones become legendary mountains.
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