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Late tournament matches on Magic-league:

Reply to topic Forum Index -> Magic Rulings
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Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:07 am    Post subject: Late tournament matches on Magic-league: Reply with quote

Ok, so heres the way I understand the logic of Magic-League judges, and apparently they voted on these lines of b.s. Please follow. Because I could be wrong.

IF: In a Match, in this case the example is T2.

Player 1 wins the die roll. In this case let's also have player 1 win match 1, just slightly, although that doesn't really matter, but for extreme measures, let's say that he wins just barely scraping it out.

Player 2 stomps player 1 in MATCH 2, but it takes a while, and the game lasts a while.

--Basicly from what I understand the judges award player one the victory in case of a tie, in a case where a game three is not played. Where does that EVERY benefit a player who looses the die roll. It basicly gives player 2 no chance to win, UNLESS he/ she wins the dice roll.

And let me just go a step further. Lets say player 1 is playing any kind of aggro deck/ burn deck. In this case let's use zoo, and player two is using, let's say U/R tron.

Now with the same results to a game, you can switch player 1's deck for ANY burn/aggro/lifegain deck, and they pretty much win if the games go 1-1 in favor of Player one being that they won game 1.

Now let's go one more step further. IF players each win one game a peace, and it ends up going to a third game. The serious control deck is going to loose inless they get a fast hand, via fourth turn hellkite or something along that order, and even then they are going to be taking alot of damage from any type of burn/ aggro deck.

Anyways to get to the point, if a control deck goes to game 3 with any sort of aggro deck, and DOESN'T have lifegain, or an equal ammount of burn, "which wouldn't make it control anymore" The control player looses.

Anyways the main question I have is for the judges, how does a judge constitute that as fair. I'm not bitching, i'm asking, and I think I finally deserve a valid response other then, "well thats what we all voted on, OR, do you have a better idea." Because I have presented valid ideas and they're shot down because Magic-league refuses to play by decent rulings in the end of a single elim tourney. I don't know how this works for extended in game play, or type 1 for that matter, but I certainly don't see this as a REASONABLE ruling with literally thirty some viable decks.

What do you players think? What do you judges think?
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this league is famous for their quick tournament runs, if you give an extension or something (or whatever your solution may be) the league will get slow and then they get messages for people who post a topic: Why so less tournaments on m-l ...

so you just can't have the perfect league

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Joined: 30 Oct 2003
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont play control and you won't have to worry about it... you can always try to get the person on stalling and it's equal chance to win the dice roll...

you can't just end the match in the middle of game 3 and say okay time let's do a coin flip for the match because someone might be in a better position or whatever. going by life is the fairest way to do it... what else would you base it on?

- how many cards they have in hand? no
- how many cards they have in play? no

they do have ways of deciding matches where time runs out before game 3 starts like whoever won game 1 or whoever won the first roll to see who played or drawed or even just doing a coin flip but whatever they do is whatever but for during game 3 either you go by life or you pretend the 3rd game didn't happen and treat it like you would if you didn't even have time to start game 3 and this people most likely won't wanna do.
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Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think ur just gay Cool
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Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because you cant Draw in single elim because taht would'nt make sense M-L impliments whoever wins r1 wins the match its not rocket science thers no real reason why they would do that... its just to keep issues from arrising,, u know if i mana screw game 2 lol u can easily wreck me its to avoid problems and to avoid everyone from staying ina mini forever ahaha

its just a rule
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Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is covered under their tournament rules. It has NOTHING to do with winning a die roll. If the match is 1-1 and game 3 has not started then whoever won game one is considered match winner. If in game 3 then it will go to life totals and if those are tied then once again game 1 winner gets the match. In a DCI tourney it would be first loss of life would lose but since this is their league and online they don't want to waste an undeterminable amount of time waiting for loss of life.
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Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 119

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a scenario: an aggro deck versus a control deck in T2. In this scenario:

1. You have a die roll. The die roll can give either deck an edge in this matchup, but is by no means the decider as all kinds of other factors, random and nonrandom, are at work there.

2. It is by no means certain that control decks will take forever to win. UR Tron, to use your example, accelerates the endgame by digging into Tron for Hellkites and Demonfires (speaking generally). The antiaggro spells it uses are designed to buy time for this to occur. It doesn't have to take half an hour for this to happen (although it can, thanks to aforementioned random factors). Control decks can win fast, and not just with a turn 4 Hellkite, as long as the pace of play is reasonable.

3. Managing the clock is part of every format, DCI-sanctioned or otherwise. You may not like it, but that player who Proclamations back their Martyrs and puts their life total out of your reach is probably only going to win game 1 before time is called. That Zoo deck may get a terrible draw and just keep playing through game 2; if you can't kill him fast enough, he's got the match.

4. There has to be some kind of ruling for a single-elim tourney system, one that doesn't rely on board position or matchup strength. I like the current system because it places emphasis on preboard matchups, rewarding (slightly) the player whose focus on their maindeck earns them game 1 and punishing (slightly) players who deal with matchups in their board.

Some people might feel differently, and that last point is my informed opinion more than anything else, but that's as valid a response as it gets.
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 649

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally think that the life thing doesnt help alot. Cause:

1. The Lifes doesnt say mutch about the gamestat(board control etc.)

2. Some life decs can take advantage of this rule

I personally think that you cant make a rule that gives the player who will probably win, the win cause you would have to look at ever game. And even then maybe he topdecks his 1 out and still wins(the other player)

So i think flipping a coin is a good thing. Cause its just luck then, and its fairest cause you win about 50% of the machtes and loose 50% and i think normally this is also about the games you can win/loose without the time. Why not just make a poll ask the people if they prefer flip/life i think flip will win.
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jayzteen, one of the problems with your argument (though there are many) is that CONTROL dominate M-L.

The fact is, the only games that usually go to time are the control vs control matchup and usually that's because someone doesn't concede when they have a game lost.
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Joined: 30 May 2006
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is like the 501546156146th topic about this, ppl if it didnt change before it wont be changin anytime sooner
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Joined: 30 Nov 2004
Posts: 441
Location: not here

PostPosted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayzteen, this is a problem for every new player to this league. It was a problem for me when I first joined. You get used to it and learn to utilize it in your strategy for winning. It dosn't make a difference in every match, but it does pay to pay attention to it.

Either that or don't play. It's the way the league is, and it's probably not going to change.
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Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some answers on people talking about me being specific about tron. Tron can go off turn four, yes, but generally people arn't able to go off then. The main problem I see is that the ruling gives the aggro player "zoo" deck a large advantage just off a g1 win of the die roll. If you don't think so i'm not going to argue with you. I'm just stating what i've seen and playtested against over and over again. And to clerify things tron usually waits for it's opponent to be locked down on resources via land in order to play the dragon. Inless obviously life total makes a difference ect. My main point it look and see that this ruling gives burn decks advantages. In control v control matchups it's not about life either. So the ruling is idiotic.

And to make a point, if a player is "loosing" a game via a control v control matchups that doesnt mean he should conceit. Any decent control deck can fight it's way back. It all depends on the circumstances and I wouldnt even say as a general rule that life total is usually whos winning. Things like shock lands ping lands and other things come into play here as well. The point is the ruling is retarded, if you want to have quick tourneys there are other ways to fasten the pace of a game.
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