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UG draw go for states, needs a few final pointers

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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:10 pm    Post subject: UG draw go for states, needs a few final pointers Reply with quote

So here is what I'm planning to bring to states on Saturday. I've tested it quite a bit so far, but I'm hoping someone may see a glaring ommision before I head out.

Anyway, here is my list, feel free to give me any tips/advice:

4x Cancel
4x Careful Consideration
4x Gaea's Blessing
4x Remand
4x Rune Snag
4x Voidslime
3x Wipe Away
4x Mystic Snake
4x Simic Sky Swallower
3x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
7x Snow-Covered Forest
15x Snow-Covered Island
4x Repeal
4x Mana Leak
4x Mouth of Ronom
2x Tormod's Crypt
1x Wipe Away

Last edited by CrippleFight on Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 530
Location: New York

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With only 22 land and no acceleration I relly don't see you gettign a SSS in time
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it has happened pretty consistantly. I mean I don't usually resolve tef until around the end of their 7th or 8th turn, and the sky swallows are usually at the end of their 12th or 13th turn. The deck pretty much sits there and counters the key threats and recycles the counters via gaeas and I refill my hand w/ and end of turn consideration followed by a blessing on my own turn. The deck isn't perfect by any means, but it is anything but fast, so having 9 to 11 mana hasn't been uncommon.
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh and I've been highly debating swapping the draining whelks in the board for repeal (great against the lotus in dragon storm during its upkeep) as I haven't boarded in the whelks in a long time.
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Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. where are scrying sheets?

2. has 22 lands really been consistant?

3. how do you beat boros/sligh/UG??

4. switch gaea's blessing for mana leak
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Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how do you deal with any one or two drop(on the draw)?
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I can sacrifice the gaea's as they are the replenishing counter engine.

I'll definatly look into think twice as it does sound like a good idea as I'm usually trading the consideration for net 1 card anyway.

The ironfoots were in the deck at one time (hence the abundance of snow lands, but I found that if the opponent resolved something w/ 3 or more toughness other than watchwolf then I've already run into trouble and the ironfoot wasn't usually enough to save me b/c by casting it I've given up the ability to counter something on their turn.

As far as the what do I do about 1/2 drops when on the draw. I've found they usually aren't enough to kill me or pose a long enough term threat that I can't handle them eventually and still have a reasonable life total to take the game.
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Joined: 02 Feb 2005
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:01 am    Post subject: lands Reply with quote

dude, you have got to play more lands then 22, i would say add shock and pain, but i dont know if you have them, what i recemend at least is -2 snow + 4 bounce lands.
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Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drop the snakes they suck and are too expsive as far as counters go Also SCRYING SHEETS come on now. and where are the repeals? any?
4 SSS? thats exsisive with no excell and card draw you dont need 4, think twice is good and so is research. and are 12 counters gona work if they drop like ledgewalker or scryb scout?
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Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, I found the snakes to be pretty decent. They have come in handy a few times now in that they counter some form of a spell and usually take a creature with themselves to the bin.

Scryb and legdewalker are problems, but honestly in the month or so of testing with this deck I've seen maybe 4 decks that have used them. I really didn't find it pertinant to dedicate a slot to those cards. I am thinking you guys are right in that 4 swallowers is a bit too many and am considering swapping out 2 for 2 ironfoots.

The card I'm actually pretty much boned if the opponent casts atm is scargnoth(sp?) as I've seen him in a few sbs lately and when hes combined with something like stonewood invo he is a beast.

I really haven't found 22 land to be to few, and bounce lands seem REALLY counter productive in this deck. I like having my mana available right then to counter something on their turn and turn 2 is not a turn I want to be tapped out on at all.

As far as the numbers of counters is concerned, I have 20 forms of counter maindeck as well as 3 uncounterable bounce. Add in the fact that I'm constantly reshuffling the counters back in and it turns out I'm very very rarely sitting on less than 2 in hand per turn.

Compulsive research didn't work well (neither did tidings) when I was testing it. I always found myself never wanting to cast it as I usually couldn't afford to be tapped that much during my turn. I'm trying out think twice and I think I'm going to add it somewhere.

And finally, yeah breeding pools and yav coasts would be nice, but unfortunatly they are the ones I have few of as I was a very heavy red black player during t2 when kami was in, so all I have is foundrys,stomps, forges, crypts, springs, shrines, etc. I'd probably run out and grab them if it wasn't for the fact that green is such a small splash that by the time I need it I usually have access to it.

I'm no sure on the sheets, but I'll throw a set in for tomorrow and see how I like it. It would only be for land thining as I see it, but that may be a good enough reason.
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Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest this build and the direction you're going with UG isn't gonna get you anywhere at States. Since from what I hear, States is mostly aggro, I see you getting rolled.

First, 22 lands in a Control deck means you'll be missing crucial land drops.

Second, All Gaea's Blessing does is put 3 counters back into your deck. There is no guarantee you'll even draw back those counters in the same game.

Third, with only 4 draw spells, you won't be drawing into your counters that much.

Also, there's a reason MuC these days isn't good. Because without control cards to go against fast aggro decks, it loses. Because you cannot counter everything. And remember you only have 22 lands so most of the time you'll be only able to counter 1 spell a turn for like the first half of the game and most aggro decks can play 2 spells a turn. Without Control elements (Wipe Away isn't a control element) you'll die. That's why UW Control is able to win in this metagame so often.

You need to trash this particular build of UG, rethink the direction you want to go in with it and build it intelligently so that it doesn't totally suck versus the metagame.
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Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maindeck suggestions:
-2 Cancel
-4 Careful Consideration
-2 Gaea's Blessing
-3 Wipe Away
-1 Simic Sky Swallower

+4 Think Twice
+4 Whispers of the Muse
+4 Repeal

You can cut 2 Cancel, because you have enough 3 and 4 mana counters already. I would replace Careful Consideration with more useful instant card drawing. The Whispers and Think Twice also make you draw through your deck faster, making your 22 lands less of a problem and Gaea's Blessing more powerful, as you fill up your graveyard faster and thin your deck faster. This way, shuffling the good cards back in, has more impact.

You don't want opening hands with 3 Gaea's Blessing though. It's a sorcery and doesn't have much use early game. So play 2.

Whispers of the Muse would be a great card if you get Teferi in play, because normally, opponents would respond to it with burn to your head, but now they can't.

Repeal is a lot better than Wipe Away since it doesn't give up card advantage. Repealing Elephant tokens is great.

If I were you, I'd also consider Spell Snare. What if an opponent begins and plays a turn 2 Dark Confidant? You scoop? It's also a great card vs Boros, and U/G tempo with Plaxmanta and Mana Leaks.

Sideboard: Where are the Carven Caryatids vs Aggro? Giant Solifuge vs other control would be great. Hunted Wumpus would also be a nice card vs Zoo and Boros in the sb.

And again regarding the lands: You ever played a control mirror? You really need a land drop in each of the first 6 turns or you lose. Simic Growth Chamber would at least be a good addition to the sideboard if you refuse to play more land main.
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 649

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

where the heck is psionic blast in this deck. I think its a must. And did you think about some quicksands? With Quicksands, Psionic blast and repeal you should handle aggro decks more easily. So my suggestion is -3 whipe away + 3 Repeal -4 Gaes blessing +4 Psionic blast -1 Skymic +1 Repeal -1 Cancel -1 Trefferies... -1 Mystic Snake +3 Think Twice -4 Snow covered Forests -4 Snow covered islands. +4 Breeding pool +4 Quicksand. Thats how i would do this. and if you realy wanna redo some counter in your deck then i would play loaming shaman he can destroy creatures kill the enemy and shuffles any number of your cards back.
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Joined: 05 Jun 2005
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hail Storm is a Pryoclasm in this deck...and most people won't see it coming.

Also you should run Ohran Viper in this deck, its basically an Ophian that can block and kill creatures bigger than it.

Breeding Pools and Yavimaya Coast: Expensive yes, but their damn well worth the money.

Mana Leak is very good, you should probably cut the Blessins's for them...

I'm not a huge fan of Careful Consideration, as its only advantage in this deck is to play it as a sorcery, and Compulsive Research is just better than that... and for one more you can just play Tidings and get a 3+ Card Advantage.

I also think Repeal is way better than Wipe away, as you snag a card for your troubles and can bounce call tokens for U.

I also think you NEED spell Snare somewhere in this deck... it basically counters turn 2 against any aggro deck...

I've played this type of deck for a long time, so I know a little about this deck... Wink Razz

aka Lukas Carlson

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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CrippleFight wrote:

As far as the what do I do about 1/2 drops when on the draw. I've found they usually aren't enough to kill me or pose a long enough term threat that I can't handle them eventually and still have a reasonable life total to take the game.

Your deck VS. White Weenie

Them: Savannah Lions, go.
You: Land, go.
Them: Soltari Priest, you're at 18.
You: Land, go.
Them: Land, Paladin En-Vec (lets say you counter it) you're at 14.
You: Land, go.
Them: You're at 10.
You: Land, go.
Them: EOT Char.
You: Counter it!
Them: Untap, attack, double Volcanic Hammer. Thanks for playing.

Unless that counter is a Mystic Snake, followed by a Teferi, followed by a counterspell for EVERY BURN SPELL IN THEIR DECK (not to mention Demonfire is usually uncounterable) you're never going to beat a one-two play on the draw.

You either need Spell Snare, Phyrexian Ironfoot, or Carven Caryatid, and at least one or two Mouths should be main...
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