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Grapeshot and copies issue

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Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Grapeshot and copies issue Reply with quote


In our last local tournament, a competitor and me had a criteria difference of Grapeshot and copies.

Things happened like this: My opponent played some spells and cast a grapeshot, making 1 damage of the original grapeshot and 7 copies (8 total damage). I had some creatures, so I asked him to chose targets (That because I had a counter in hand and I could avoid 1 damage in one important creature).

He said: "I don't need to choose targets. While resolving I will decide target one by one" (He suspected I had a counter in hand).

I said: "No. When all your copies are put on the stack, you need to choose all targets, and then, they resolve individually and I can respond each one if I want it".

We asked a judge, and judge gave me the reason. But my competitor was unconvinced. When match end, he told me:

"I played grapeshot in MTGO and there, you need to choose target when each instance of grapeshot is resolving, not when they are put on the stack. I guess judge is wrong because MTGO can't be wrong".

I want to learn what is the correct answer, so I really appreciate if someone could help me. I would ask for an another judge answer in this forum (Not a common player) because I want to share this answer with my competitor and I know he will not be convinced unless a superior judge respond this issue.

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Level 4 Judge

Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recently (February) retired from judging IRL, but was Level 2.
Can confirm that targets always must be chosen before an object is put on the stack. It is not "choose a creature", it is "target creature". This is covered in the comprehensive rules if you wish to look for it.
Also, can confirm MTGO does not work how he claims it does with resolving grapeshot, as I have cast it many times and it requires you choose all targets before any priority is given to the copies.
On top of this about MTGO, he should also be aware that just because "mtgo does it this way" does not mean that is how the rules work. MTGO is known to have problems before regarding rules interactions and the like.

While this is a great place to ask rules questions, there is also a judge chat for IRL judges exclusively that you can likely find on the internet easily for times like this.
Also, always remind your opponent that they have the opportunity to appeal if the ruling judge is not the head judge.
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Joined: 22 Aug 2016
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Thanks! Very helpful and detailed your explanation!

I will share it with my competitor.

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