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UBx Draw-Go

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Reply to topic Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 alchemy is wrong. The card doesn't really do anything for you.

I don't like 3 black sun zenith. I think you want 1 maindeck.

Dismember is terrible. 3 doom blade 1 vicious hunger

-1 tribute to hunger +1 geth's verdict

Army of the Damned is cute, But Jace memory adept is powerful too.

Visions of beyond is pretty terrible.

I actually like 1 disperse.

You can easily maindeck some wring flesh.

Basically what I am suggesting is the GP Brisbane list plus 1 disperse and maybe change the win conditions. THat list is insanely good. I also don't mind 1 or 2 lilianas as a stand alone removal spell slash win condition.
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you bin a think twice or another alchemy...Great.

When this doesn't happen, you're paying 3 mana for an impulse that can potentially bin some of your threats when you need lands (ie you see 2 batterskull in an alchemy and need to hit your fourth land drop...what do you do?)

It's a 2 of card imo. I'd play the 4th think twice before the first alchemy in this deck. Divination might just be better as well.
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engrishskill wrote:
So, I have had no issue with the all.To play draw-go, you can't be a player who will do careless things when you decide that you should win soon.

The point that I play a threat at is often a formality because it is usually following some sort of blow out(props to instants and knowing how to play them.

Divination is a fine card, but it does not dig 4 deep, is a sorcery and has been mediocre in testing. You may want to consider actually playing the deck competently before offering advice to someone who does.

It's an archetype that is built around a playstyle that hasn't been in standard since time spiral block.

The cantrips and alchemies allow the deck to dig deep enough to find sorcery speed stuff eot and cast them with a fresh mana pool. If I have to explain that line of play to someone, they really should save themselves the trouble of typing any criticism/theory.

There's no rule against not knowing what you're talking about, but it seems like a strange thing to flaunt.

Digging 4 deep and 2 for 1ing are two completely different things. I see no reason to have to dig 4 deep with a bunch of redundant effects in your deck. You aren't digging to find a burning vengence or a creature to unburial. You're digging for actual no reason but small incremental value from snapcaster and other alchemies and think twice, oh and the MASSIVEEEEEEEEEE UPSIDEEEEEEEEEE of being instant. The ramp deck is all curve based, so you know when you can't tap out (they have 5-6-7 mana) and by turn 6 you can divination and leave dissipate up anyway. Leaving 6 mana up all the time is completely unnecessary in this format except I guess in the mirror. In the mirror I would think you would rather have 2 cards from divination than 1 from alchemy, with the redundant effects and all and trying to hit more land drops than they do. Plus milling yourself for 4 instead of 2 is actually relevant as well.

You can claim all you want, I was just throwing my opinions out there. I bet you 10000000 dollars you tested a bunch, but if you suck and test incorrectly it's not really relevant. Either that or your english sucks and I misunderstood all of what you said.

If all you care about is draw-go, Why would you play 3 black sun zenith? Why wouldn't you play the UW deck PV made that kills with tokens? This is just inferior to that if you're going to claim this as a "style".
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Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2011 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engrishskill: I don't think it's fair to say that to P_P4E, he is not acting childish. He is giving his opinion, and he's giving plenty of evidence and examples.

Nevertheless, I think Forbidden Alchemy is an amazing card for the Draw-Go deck. It's got the same value as Divination after you flash it back (albeit expensive), but yes, it's power comes in the fact that it's an instant. It also DOES dig 4 deep, giving you exactly what you need in situations, and giving you your finishers when you need them.

As for your list, Engrishskill, my suggestions would be...
-2 Tribute to Hunger
This card just seems much worse than Doomblade or Go for the Throat, an extra mana, and your opponent gets to choice. Your deck is heavy red aggro, so I can see why you included it, but I'd still rather have it as a sideboard card.

-2 Dismember
Yet again, Go for the Throat and Doomblade hit pretty much everything this would hit. This still doesn't kill Wurmcoil Engine or Grave Titan, but at least one of Doomblade/Go For the Throat does. Marginally worse in your aggro match-ups too.

-1 Black Sun's Zenith
I agree with whoever said this. 2 is enough wrath effects, especially with Alchemy, the fact they reshuffle, and plenty of other removal.

-1 Visions of the Beyond
I think making this a one of, is the right call.

+1 Think Twice
Such a clutch card in the early game. It really makes the mana work in this deck.

+2 Go for the Throat
Hits pretty much everything except Wurmcoil Engine, which shouldn't ever touch the board anyway.

+3 Wring Flesh
Infinitely better against the aggro decks then Tribute to Hunger (imo), and better than Dismember.
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Joined: 14 Mar 2009
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough.

I can see your point on Dismember, and I guess I undervalued Tribute to Hunger. I still don't like 3 Black Sun's Zenith or 2 Visions of Beyond though.

I've also been working on a build similar to PV's deck. Still something that irks me with his list though. I also don't know how it wins the UB control match-up consistently.
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Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2011 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engrishskill wrote:
The childishness comes in when one fails to apply what they [should've] read to their argument(s).

-2 Tribute to Hunger: this is a card that consistently performs better than I expect it to. It's more of a package than a single removal spell. It's a flexible tool for sketchy situation, where I have targeted myself and sacced my Batterskull token and gained life. It also takes out shroud/hexproof and protection creatures. It is also insanely easy to engineer situations so hunger is basically targeted removal. Tribute is good in situations where non-edict effects are completely worthless. For the most part; if I can't get any value out of Tribute, having dead removal spells are the least of my worries.

Tribute to Hunger targets opponents. i almost tried that once and did a once over on the card text. If I had a Nicol Bolas for every time I didn't read a card before casting it (ie the Morbid part of Woodland Sleuth lmfao) I would have a shitload of Nicol Bolases
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Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm playing UB drawgo right now and I'm having real trouble at my store. There are a couple people playing UR delver which is a really rough matchup, and a few more playing UW control or GW tokens. Both of these are also tough matchups. My sideboard is 4 Ratchet Bombs, 2 Curse Deaths Hold, and a few other cards, but the MU's are still bad.

Visions is a terrible card. You should eithey play Ponder, which I think should maybe be replacing some Think Twices right now, or Gitaxin Probe. If you want to play visions just play blue sun zenith because it's strictly better. By the time you're drawing 3 with visions, you can be drawing 3+ with blue suns. If you ever get in a position where you NEED to cast visions, obviously the card is bad because you'd rather just have the card you need. It's giving you value SO FEW TIMES that it's not what I'd call CA at all.

Forbidden Alchemy is a 4 of. The fact that it puts stuff in your graveyard is completely aside from the fact that it's just an Impulse with flashback. In any control matchup, if you are casting this spell you are pretty much just winning the game. Sometimes you cast this spell and you see Snapcaster, Doom Blade, Dissipate and Think Twice and you have now effectively drawn 4 cards (because you can now cast all these spells).

I just got a playset of SOFF and Inkmoth (I'm one of those 20-somethings who has a real job) so I'm trying the ultracute UBlade with Skeletons, but honestly I'd really rather be playing UW or maybe even UWb and relying on DOJ and Midnight Hauntings.
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Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How often are you actually winning with poison? If not very much then I don't think 4 inkmoth is the way to go. I would increase ghost quarters to at least 3.

Ive been playing cuneos uw list and blue suns zenith is really really good. I would put two slots in for that and definately take out the 2 visions of beyond.

No Liliana???

I really don't think alchemy is that amazing in your deck. It's not like your playing solar flair with creatures to unburial or anything, so I don't see why you want to mill yourself. Just to cardfix and for snapcaster??

I think you should play only like 2 alchemy and put in some ponder. ponder ensures you make all of your land drops early which is essential vs almost all matchups. ponder also allows you to find counters when you need them and board clearers when you need them (vs aggro) early game and set up your future turns.

Consider adding evil presence to the sideboard to deal with wolfrun and townships/haunting.
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