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One or another (MBC)

Reply to topic Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks
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Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:54 am    Post subject: One or another (MBC) Reply with quote

Here's my FNM MBC list:

4 Marsh Flats
4 Tectonic Edge
17 Swamp

4 Nantuko Shade
4 Gatekeeper of Malakir
2 Skinrender
2 Grave Titan

4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Sign in Blood
3 Mimic Vat
3 Mind Sludge
3 Grasp of Darkness
2 Grim Discovery
2 Consuming Vapors
1 Duress
1 Liliana Vess

4 Doom Blade
4 Vampire Hexmage
2 Duress
1 Haunting Echoes
4 Slots Available

Now, having 4 slots available in my sideboard, i have certain questions:

1) If I am devoting 3 slots to aggro, should they be 3 Meek, 2 Meek and 1 Marsh Casualties, 2 Marsh Casualties and 1 Meek, or 3 Marsh Casualties?

After studying the creature base in Standard, the only relevant creatures Consume the Meek kills that Marsh Casualties can't are Walls (Omens and Battlement), Nissa' Chosen, Kor Skyfisher, Vampire Nighthawk, and pumped up Elves (Archdruid) So which one should I pick?

2) Is 2 Haunting Echoes the right number, or is 1 enough?

3) Is Memoricide worth it? My matchup against Valakut is around 55/45 game 1. Is memoricide THAT good against Valakut? If so, how many is the right amount?

4) Is the sideboard OK? Would you change anything?

That's about it. Thank you in advance.
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

memoricide kills combo decks dead, and thats exactly what valakut is. If you are on the play with a memoricide in hand, you pretty much win.

Im not a fan of the singleton duress and liliana or the grim discovery. I think 2 duress and 2 IoKozilek might suit your game a lot better. You could also then rip the duresses from your sb:
your sb Now:

4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Doomblade (playtest this maindeck imo)
0 haunting echoes (wtf? I just disagree with this card being good at all)
3 consume the meek(Which RECKS elves, ww, boros, kuldotha...anything aggro if you can get it off before you die Razz)
4 memoricide
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Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, Haunting Echoes is a REALLY solid SB card in this deck. Deals with pretty much any deck.

Aggro decks get butt raped if i have a Haunting Echoes after a Consume the Meek

Deals with recurring cards, like Vengevine and Bloodghast don't like the card at all.

Absolutely demolishes control (Valakut, after a TEdge for a Valakut; UB, for Jace 2.0 and Grave Titan;...)

So, definetely 1 or 2 Haunting Echoes in the side.
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Joined: 07 Nov 2010
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haunting echoes isn't standard legal anymore
And I agree with meek and maybe ratchet bomb, also one more titan in the main should be instead of the liliana vess

Edit: Yes I didn't noticed that was in m11 then 2 should be enough echoes

Last edited by DaveLombJr on Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Joined: 08 Sep 2009
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it is, reprinted in M11
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Joined: 27 Jun 2006
Posts: 186

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets get this straight. You consider it a solid card because:
a. it consumes five mana which could go to nantuko shade, consume the meek, part of a grave titan etc. etc.
b. it gets rid of cards that are not in play and may never see the battlefield ever/ever again
c. it requires some other worthwhile card to be activated first (ie consume, or tectonic) for it even to work
d. its got a shiny rare symbol

or is there some magical reason why this is a good card? It does not OMFGPWN anything, the fact is: the only reason i really would ever play haunting echoes is in a keening stone/traumatize/echoes kind of deck. Otherwise it is a waste of mana, time, and a valuable sideboard slot.

You need to ask yourself what you need to be doing at the point where you could play a haunting echoes. Swinging with a shade maybe? Mind sludge maybe? But if you are trying should not be focused on a card that assists to deck an opponent and *might* just grap some good shit if you luck out and get a consume the meek vs an aggro deck right before
(and i think it is worthwhile to mention that you aren't even running a freaking consume the meek in your current build so that scenario is implausible anyway)
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Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're trying to remove copies of Valakut from someone's library, play Sadistic Sacrament. Haunting Echoes is only good in situation where you're already ahead, i.e. win-more.
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Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back to the debate of Memoricide vs Sadistic Sacrament.
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

echoes is actually much more devistating against valakut then memoricide is. I've seen it and it wins you the game instead of just slowing them down and changing their plan sometimes.

I'd play 4 mind sludge. What's it bad against?

Why grim discovery? Isn't anything else better?

I like no doom blade maindeck. It kinda sucks right now. I'd actually just cut it from the board too. no matchup are you going to want to bring 4 in except against boros or elves, and you can just play smother instead which is also good against vampires.

Abyssal persecutor has to make the cut as at least a 1 or 2 of. You have suboptimal cards already like consuming vapors, so you might as well play the only card that makes it playable in this format.

Memoricide and sadistic sacrement are great in this format. You get Grave Titan against UB and they scoop. Or gideon against UW. Or obviously primeval against valakut or with sacrament just valakuts.

I think disfigure is better against aggro than consume the meek is in this deck. You want to be able to out maneuver them early, and consume comes down the turns that you could be playing mind-sludge or liliana, etc.

Sorin Markov is pretty insane against valakut especially after you sacrament for their valakuts or memoricide the titans. They can't damage it before you just ultimate it and mindslaver them. It's also good against RUG if people still play that deck as it nips the mana guys in the bud and goes ultimate if you can keep raging ravine off you.

I'd -2 grim discovery and +1 mind sludge +1 Persecutor.

In the board I would add another echoes as I think you want to draw it in the matchups you want it for, and I would add 3 disfigure. -4 doom blade +3 smother and 1 sorin.

Just my opinion. I've tried MBC infinite different ways and it just doesn't have any gas.
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Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 864

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen some people playing Crystal Ball for late-game scry, it sorta gets the job done as far as options for gas.
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Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 405

PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

might not look like it on paper but bloodhusk ritualist is definitely better than mind sludge
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Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found that more often then not the Hexmage is an absolute mainboard must. It seals the deal vs alot of decks, and is very nasty business against Planeswalkers. Its that much more effective when you can get it on your vat.
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Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`d like to add in the defense of Haunting echoes, I can see where he is coming from. Presuming you played MBC back in tormet, Haunting echoes was the shizzle and basically wrecked everything. However, key cards are missing from that deck of old. Primarily Hypnotic Spectre, just duress and hypno was generally enough to pw0n most peoples hand and the 2x echoes more or less scooped everyone. That was a different time though, and the meta was VERY different. I don`t really feel it has a place in this deck any longer.

All so in regards to Mind sludge, I play tested with it in my mainboard for awhile and generally found it lackluster at best. It was nice every once and awhile against Ramp decks and other decks without counters, but WAY to slow to be effective against U/x anything, since it generally just gets countered and is a wasted card. I'd rather just have 3xkozliek 2x duress mb and 1 of each in the side or just 4x kozliek and 3duress in the sb for the control match.

Hmm what else, ah roight Marsh casualties . . . well I hate to mirror peoples opinions but that card is waaaay to jank. It needs to gtfo and be forgotten about. Drop that shit right now. I'm not sure how this card was neglected but I think Ratchet bombs would be much much better in that slot. I mean it kills tokens, you can use it to wipe 1cc critters and still leave all your 2+ cc stuff alive, without being concerned about pesky -x/x shit either. All so, Consume the meek HAS to be in the sideboard at the very least, if not the main instead of ratchet bombs. Soo yeah Ratchet or Consume in the main/sb.
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