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UR tempo

Reply to topic Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks

like the deck?
 35%  [ 5 ]
 42%  [ 6 ]
Dear God This Deack Is INSANE!!!!
 7%  [ 1 ]
Be Back...I Just Jizzed In My Pants
 14%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 14

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Level 1 Judge

Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:23 pm    Post subject: UR tempo Reply with quote

// Lands
7 [M11] Mountain (4)
7 [ROE] Island (2)
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [M11] Terramorphic Expanse
3 [WWK] Tectonic Edge

// Creatures
3 [ROE] Surrakar Spellblade
4 [ROE] Kiln Fiend
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide

// Spells
4 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [ZEN] Burst Lightning
4 [ROE] Staggershock
3 [WWK] Searing Blaze
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt
3 [ROE] Distortion Strike
3 [SOM] Koth of the Hammer

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SOM] Volition Reins
SB: 3 [WWK] Calcite Snapper
SB: 3 [M11] Brittle Effigy
SB: 3 [OV] Pyroclasm
SB: 3 [ZEN] Into the Roil

deck description: so this started with me figuring that a kiln fiend deck would be nice considering the removal light meta. So far this deck has preformed quite well against numerous top teir decks.

the basic idea is to get damage through to your opponent. There are TONS of burn spells which you use to either finish off your opponent or remove a creature to get a fiend or a spellblade through.
first thing a lot of people are going to say is that this deck is voulnerable to removal, this is false. This deck can easily win soley on the back of it's massive burn suit and goblin guide if it has to, or jace to death.

moving on to the mu's

ub control: my favorite mu, g1, they have trouble keeping up with the burn coming their way, especially after a t1 goblin guide. This deck just has an answer to everything they have, and a lot of the time, they run out of answers for what you have, on top of that once their life gets low, they get scared of tapping their lands out of fear of me holding that game ending burn spell. post board in comes the reigns and you get rid of the pointless distortion strike and seering blaze and you get the snapper and the reigns, after that its soooo much worse for them.

elves: played them a couple times, you can keep them at bay with all that burn, also seering blaze and staggershock automatically become 2-1s, I'm considering taking out the pyroclasms in the board since my deck simply outplays elves.

uw:only played once, and lost, didn't have this sb though, volition reigns snapper and koth probably improve it a lot now.

valakut ramp: my deck kills faster, and they only have 4 removal spells and no early creatures. Turn 4 they get titan, turn for I win if I do not meet resistance.

eldrazi ramp: same deal as valakut, no resistence makes it easy for me to win fast. post board you get effigys and into the roil (for anything non emrakul).

In sum, this deck has a couple game plans
1. win fast, try to land an early guide, follow by burn or fiend with distortion strike.
2. tempo, ride kiln fiend guide spellblade and koth to victory while controling with jace
3. play the control deck, turn your burn into removal spells and win through jace or protect koth till you can make it go ultimate and play the card advantage game.

comments are welcome, flaming will be ignored because it is pointless, if you have negative comments, be as specific as possible ex: this deck sucks, kiln fiend is horrible doesn't help, instead explain why you don't like kiln fiend, and why he is not a fit for this deck, or explain why you think this deck is a bad choice for the meta.

good comments are always welcome as well. Be sure to let me know what you think of the deck and the sb.

p.s. before I get this comment, no I do not like assault strobe, it is to situational, and to easy to 2-1 me, distortion strike is an exception because of it's rebound and making a creature unblockable (I would hate to have that sitting in my hand as i stare down 1 large blocker)

thanks a lot guys!
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Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it seems like the blu is only for make this deck slow...
take off and play mono red!
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Level 1 Judge

Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha, yeah I'm pretty sure you were playing against me Smile, playing terramorphic was a great idea especially considering the double mana symboles, and I like koth as an addition, he puts on a nice clock and can be a game winner all by himself, and fine, I will test scroll theif, however I really like surrakar because my opponents usually HAVE to spend their removal on it, or jace bounce it, or into the roil it, unlike scroll theif, which gives them less mana to use to stop me. I love it when people drop jace to bounce my surrakar on turn 4 only to see me recast it and bolt their jace.

@durbo, play the deck first before assuming it's attempting to be a worse version of rdw. The blue cards are all potent threats, and all of them have won me games. Also blue adds volition reigns into the sb which is awesome against uw, calcitite snapper is good against decks that load up on removal and don't have very many creatures and into the roil deals will so many things rdw cant (white leyline for example).

also, I played against rdw, I have more better burn and card advantage, I run them out of gass and finish them off the same way they intended to win, however considering that they run masticor, I may put flame slashes into the sb instead of pyroclasms.

ps. sorry that i did not include that mu.
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Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only few things that make this deck not amazing are...

1. Mana. The mana is atrocious and in no way can be helped. You might even have to cut stuff and run Profetic prism or something along those lines. Maybe Preordain? KOTH could possibly get cut also as I think you have enough gas with Maurader and kiln fiend + burn.

2. You do not have even mana leak. If you have blue mana and jace, you need mana leak. As the bottom guy said, if ALL you're doing is trying to kill fast then play mono red. Fit 4 mana leak in.

3. Goblin Guide should be something else. You're trying to win a card advantage war alongside winning pretty fast but not blisteringly fast, and there are better cards for that like maybe Plated Geopede or Scroll Thief. Assault Strobe with unblocked Scroll Thief?!

4. Kiln Fiend plus counters like Dispel and Spell Pierce out of the board are VERY GOOD against control. They try to get you and you get them back... HARD.

Instead of an island or two I would run Soaring Seacliffs. Not many flying blockers out there and it gets overtop Trinket Mage, Wall of Omens in the various control matchups and against most of the rest of the decks just makes the guy unblockable. With your guys this effect is pretty powerful.

I think your problem matchup is going to be Mono Red. So... You need some anti-red stuff in the board. I'd just go with Dragon's Claw

I don't think you can afford to play Tech Edge, nor do I think you need it. That's for battles of attrition and you shouldn't be engaging in those or you're not going to win very often. You should win either on turns 4-5 or 7-8 depending on opposing hate.

I think running Arc Trail and Forked Bolt has some merit. Both are better at clearing blockers than Burst Lighting for the most part and are 2 for 1's against mono red some of the time while still not being terrible against anything else. Sorcery speed isn't really a problem since you currently aren't playing counterspells anyway so tapping out main phase doesn't really matter.
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Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P_P4E is right with everything he has said, I have played only one match with this deck on MWS and owned them hard granted it was against a BG poison deck.
Immediately when I copy and pasted your deck into my MWS I made some auto changes.
I took out an island for another mountain was the only main deck change I made but I altered the sideboard kind of a lot.
I took out Pyroclasms, 1 volition reigns, 1 brittle Effigy and replaced them with 3 dispel, and 2 Flame Slash.

As I entered my game I immediately noticed that I was drawing more islands than mountains(Thank you MWS) I also never got past 3 lands in either game but won both games (w/o siding as it was not needed)

My instinct is to tell you that Koth is not needed, maybe play one as a "holy shit it's a planeswalker I need to deal with that" kinda thing.
The Tectonic Edges could easily be two mountains and an island or Soaring Seacliffs which is a great idea as lame as it sounds.
Burst lightning would be great as Arctrail but I am not sold on it being a Forked Bolt oddly enough that 1 extra point seems good to me, but any of the three will do.

I hope my initial inspection of your deck was helpful and I think it is a great idea.
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Joined: 18 Oct 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used a deck similar to this, and yes it is potent because people don't seem to play removal these days, and the damage you can deal is simply insane.

I'm personally not a fan of the Jace. I know, I just dissed the best card in T2, but your deck is aggressive and fast... you call it tempo, but the goal, as I see it, is to dish as much damage as quickly as possible, and you use the card advantage from Surrakar for example to keep up. Unfortunately, Jace doesn't deal damage, and while you could use it to make sure you draw the right card/draw more card, it does cost 4... That puts it in the mid, or even late-game range for your deck, and by that point the opponent should be close to death (else you're kind of losing the game you're playing). Can a single Jace bring you back to life? I'd rather play something that deals the finishing blow, like Assault Strobe.

And while that is said, I'm also not a fan of Terramorphic. It's good right now, because the UU in your cards is harsh on the mana, but I'd rather have a fast deck and play less UU (ie, no Jace). It just depends where exactly you want to position your deck, but try it in a mirror with a faster version and see if you like it.
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Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey love the deck, I'm a big fan of ur decks in general the game plan is a bit scizopherenic and you really have to know with a deck like this when to switch from aggro to control and control to aggro as it can play both sides of the game depending on the match up.

Deck will reward heavy testing and punish people who rely on pros to tell them how to play rather than use there own brain. Punishing people who cant think for themselves always a good thing.

Also decks can be very tricky as well but this one just looks more burn orientated.

Mana is a bitch like people have said with ur so cut the edges.

Preordain would help and gains extra value with kiln fiend also you should most probably be playing this.

I do not like distortion strike, it sets you up to get 2 for 1 and can be entirely useless in other situations.

Guide should be fine basically your aggro vs control and control vs aggro for the most part though this can change on the hand and situation why i love this sort of deck so much.
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Level 1 Judge

Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 272

PostPosted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

first here is the current list I'm working with, updated since the last time I played and after reading though your guys comments which have been FANTASTIC!

// Lands
8 [M11] Mountain (4)
7 [ROE] Island (2)
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [M11] Terramorphic Expanse
2 [ROE] Evolving Wilds

// Creatures
3 [ROE] Surrakar Spellblade
4 [ROE] Kiln Fiend
4 [ZEN] Goblin Guide
3 [M11] Scroll Thief

// Spells
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 [ROE] Staggershock
3 [WWK] Searing Blaze
4 [M11] Lightning Bolt
3 [ROE] Distortion Strike
2 [SOM] Koth of the Hammer
3 [SOM] Arc Trail

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [SOM] Volition Reins
SB: 2 [M11] Brittle Effigy
SB: 2 [ZEN] Into the Roil
SB: 3 [M11] Negate
SB: 2 [M11] Elixir of Immortality
SB: 2 [ROE] Flame Slash
SB: 2 [M11] Dragon's Claw

the new mana base is much better then before, sometimes you get into aqward situations where you want RR on your second turn and UU on your third turn, but there is usually a "second best" play for your third turn and you can drop surrakar on your 4th (if nothing better comes up). The problem now is that with the addition of scroll theif and the removal of 2 koths, this deck feels a lot slower, and more reliant on creatures which I don't like.

Scroll theif just isn't doing it's job the way surrakar is. Yes surrakar is easier to kill, and harder to cast, but his impact on how he makes your opponent play is much more profound. He basically say's "deal with me now or else" and your opponent will usually jump at the chance to off him, giving you another swing with your goblin guide fiend or koth land.

I understand the concern about getting 2-1ed when playing distortion strike, however keep in mind that the more common way to stop a kiln fiend or surrakar is to simply play a blocker. A lot of opponents will see me drop surrakar and think "I can save my removal spell for later if I just play this chump blocker, and bide my time." Also, on many occasions they will tap out to do so, thinking that they are buying themselves a turn. You will probably side them out game 2 though considering your opponent will be prioritizing his removal.

goblin guide is awesome as usual, I love seeing him in my opening hand. Every time I see him I usually think to myself, that's just 2-3 less burn spells I need to finish this game, also it makes it so that if I use my burn spells as removal i'm still getting in for 2 each turn.

ywizez, yes a single jace can bring you back to life, or end the game. eg: your opponent drops the dreaded wurmcoil engine, you drop jace, bounce it and attack, next turn, he replays it, you draw three cards and use the burn you find to dome your opponent.

as for mana leak/dispel/spell pierce, not as good in practice as it is in theory, a lot of the times they just sit in your hand, Instead of trying to protect a threat, I would rather play another one. like koth or burn. If I lose a fiend oh well my opponent had to give up available mana to do so, meaning less mana for them to use to stop the burn heading their way.

adding arc trail has been great, it's not fantastic, but it is definitely good. It's the best card I have right now against elves (until I find room for forked bolt)

now for the SB: this has went through a lot of changes, but I'm still not satisfied with it yet.

dropped the volition reigns count, they are a very flexible problem solver but 3 is to many

dropped the effigy count because yes they are the only form of creature removal that I have access to that can deal with emrakul or a polymorphed creature, but still the best chance against a deck like that is to win before they do. I may just cut them for more burn.

into the roil: haven't found a reason to use them yet, may get cut, i put them in as an answer to things like white leyline but that might be a stretch, we will see how the meta shapes up.

negate: game two makes for a good sb for the control mu's and I'm testing out the countermagic game plan

flame slash: deals with those x/4 blockers really well, however idk if that's going to stay because x/4 blockers aren't that common other then wall of omens (which doesn't see much play because most decks that play white tend to be aggro since ub is now better then uw in this meta) more common are the 6/6's which I need a plan for (maybe more volition reigns or effigy, we will see).

elixer/dragon claw: for that darn red deck that has been winning all those standard trials lately, I still don't think my red mu is good so I'm gonna keep looking for answers.

some changes that I'm likely to make: I'm probably going to add the soaring seaclifs in, that sounds like a fantastic idea! I'm probably going to cut scroll theif and find room for forked bolt (I think this card would be fantastic in this deck) add a koth maybe drop one distortion strike (especially with the seaclifs)

Anyways, thank you all for your contributions so far, this deck is really shaping up keep on testing and posting results. Very Happy
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