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Lands.dec: A new approach

Reply to topic Forum Index -> Legacy (T1.5) Decks
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Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:42 pm    Post subject: Lands.dec: A new approach Reply with quote

I got really excited when i saw this Deck Teck from GP Columbus about the Lands.dec with Eli Kassis:

I copied his list after watching the video like 20 times and started playing with it, but with not satisfying results.

Here is Eli Kassis original list:

// Lands ( 36 )
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [R] Tropical Island
1 [R] Savannah
1 [R] Bayou
1 [LRW] Forest (2)
4 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [TE] Wasteland
1 [DIS] Ghost Quarter
2 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
3 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [JU] Riftstone Portal
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
3 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
4 [4E] Mishra's Factory
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins

// Spells ( 24 )
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [RAV] Life from the Loam
4 [US] Exploration
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [EX] Manabond
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
1 [IA] Zuran Orb
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
1 [EVE] Worm Harvest

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 [JU] Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 [US] Smokestack
SB: 3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

The mana disruption plan was not working at all:
Goblins and Merfolk play Aether Vial and play a lot of basics, so your Wastelands are useless and even if they draw few lands they still have a Vial to keep going. Also, Tabernacle and Rishadan Port do not work well together, if they have 3 Basics out, they still can pay for three creatures even tough you have Ports.

I also find the mana base a little bit too greedy sometimes. With Life from the Loam recursion you really want more fetchlands.

Now thats what i ended up with:

// Lands ( 29 )
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
2 [R] Tropical Island
2 [R] Taiga
1 [R] Bayou
1 [R] Savannah
1 [LRW] Forest (2)
2 [TE] Wasteland
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [SH] Volrath's Stronghold
1 [LG] Karakas
4 [DK] Maze of Ith
1 [OD] Barbarian Ring
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Tranquil Thicket
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

// Creatures ( 5 )
4 [FD] Eternal Witness
1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist

// Spells ( 26 )
1 [US] Smokestack
1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
4 [US] Exploration
1 [IA] Zuran Orb
4 [TE] Intuition
4 [RAV] Life from the Loam
1 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [US] Gamble
1 [EVE] Raven's Crime
4 [MI] Enlightened Tutor

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [M10] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [MI] Hammer of Bogardan

Here is what i did:
Step one, remove the mana disruption for a better mana base:
-4 Rishadan Port
-2 Wasteland
-1 Ghost Quater
-1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

+4 Fetchlands
+2 Taiga
+1 Smokestack
+1 Maze of Ith

The new plan is to kill all their mana after you control the board with Glacial Chasm/ Zuran Orb lock or an Ensnaring Bridge, with the 2 remaining Wastelands and the Smokestack.

The 4th Maze of Ith was added against Goblins and Zoo, where you really want to have one in your opener.

Step two, add better win conditions:
-4 Mishras Factory
-1 Worm Harvest

+4 Eternal Witness
+1 Volraths Stronghold

The Factorys are fine, but i wanted to play with Eternal Witness as number one win condtion, since they make a lot of hands a lot more consitent, especially against decks with counter magic.

Step Three, add more Tutors:
-4 Mox Diamond
-4 Manabond

+4 Enlightened Tutor
+4 Gamble

This step seems a bit odd, but Manabond is not as good in this version as it was in Eli Kassis version, since you rely more on non land cards you dont want to discard. Instead, the Enlightened Tutors act like Exploration 5-8. Gamble is another awesome card to get either Exploration or a Life from the Loam. The 4 Eternal Witnesses also make the random discard effect nearly irrelevant.

These changes takes a bit of the explosiveness out of the deck, but it adds a lot of consistency.

Step 4, add utility cards:
-3 Tolaria West
-1 Tranquil Thicket
-1 Riftstone Portal

+1 Crucible of Worlds
+1 Barbarian Ring
+1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Raven's Crime
+1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Elis Deck had no shot against Storm, so I decided to dedicate 2 main deck slots against combo.
Ethersworn Canonist is fine against almost every deck but really shines against combo, since you can tutor it up with Enlightened Tutor and Gamble, it is not hard to find him if you need him.
Plus he is your second win condition.

Ravens Crime is nice against combo, especially post board, when they get a bit slower, because they board in GY hate and answers to Canonist. It just totally wrecks them in some situations.
But im thinking about taking it out, because im not really sold on it yet, its the card i would cut if you want to play with Tolaria West or want to have like another Wasteland.

Urborg replaces the Riftstone Portal to make your Maze of Ith and Glacial Chasm add mana, I changed them mainly because of Ravens Crime and because you dont have Mox Diamons anymore to get them into your Graveyard.

Barbarian Ring is needed to kill Dark Confidants, Meddling Mages or Gaddock Teegs and sometimes Planeswalkers. Together with Crucible of Worlds it is the third win condition.

Crucible of Worlds kicks in when you dont want to dredge anymore with Life from the Loam because your deck gets too small. it also enables the Barbarian Ring win condition and the Academy Ruins win condition. Plus it is crucial if your Life from the Loam gets extirpated.

4 Pithing Needle
You board them in against every non black deck as Crypt and Relic Protection.
They also stop Planeswalkers, Aether Vials, Senseis Divining Top and Survial of the Fittest, so it never hurts if you have multiples.

4 Krosan Grip
Against Blood Moon, Leylines, Counterbalance, Enchantress and Stax decks. Can be used in the Mirror as well. Also useful against random Tsabos Webs.

3 Ethersworn Canonist
Against Combo.

1 Engineered Explosives
Against Counterbalance, Stax and Enchantress and the Mirror.
Also if you are worried about GY removal, its the backup if they remove the first one.

1 Tormods Crypt
Against Dredge and other GY recursion decks, such as the mirror.

1 Extirpate
Against Dredge and other GY recursion decks. Very useful against Vengevine fueled decks

1 Hammer of Bogardan
Its just a card I added against Magus of the Moon, because this guy killed me twice before. If you dont like it, just add a second extirpate instead.
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Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see finding room for the 4th Maze of Ith, but cutting Tabernacle and the Wastelands and Ports is so terrible. I think you are definitely overcompensating for the tribal match-ups when you can easily just create a sideboard plan that wrecks those decks quite easily by putting engineered plagues or more explosives in your board. Your mana denial plan is pretty integral to beating both zoo decks and combo decks, not to mention the numerous bant decks that exist.
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Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your comment.

I have to agree with you, the mana denial plan is great against 3 coloured deck like bant and zoo, but it is not against goblins, merfolk and the UG madness vengevine deck. its also not as good against combo as you want it to be, as Eli Kassis already said in his deck tech.

So these changes are kind of a metagame call against the rising number of Goblins, Merfolk and UG Vengevine Decks. Just check the metageme of the last ML-legacy trial.
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Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah tabernacle and wasteland are essential. I've never lost to goblins though wtf. Merfolk i understand a force of will can suck but u should be able to bounce back from just that. bottom line any problem you're having with those matchups can be fixed by glacial chasm / bridge / EE.
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Joined: 23 Apr 2008
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good read, I will test your vir, but I'm curious if you have tryed adding 1 mindslaver for another win cond
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Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not to be offensive but this deck is extremely hard to play so any losses wiill probably be from misplays not the decks weakness.

just from reading your comments your making your list a lot weaker, it doesnt need more fetchlands cause it doesnt play many spells even with loam it doesnt need more fetches so i dont know why you added them, taking out mana denial weakens your long game plan so much.

wastelands and ports help with the smokestack plan a lot. you made your deck pretty much scoop to blood moon effects which u said u lost to by taking out mox diamonds

having cannonist doesnt really do much vs storm, lands is bad vs combo cause they dont have any disruption or have a clock of any kind so u can get cannonist but they still have all the time in the world to sculpt the hand to kill you
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Joined: 23 Apr 2005
Posts: 219

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After looking at your list again i'm gonna have to agree w/ Gypsy. Especially b/c you took out tolarian wests, which are amazing tutors in Lands, considering it fetches your singletons like EE and Zuran Orb, too.
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Level 1 Judge

Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 6:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You pretty much don't know how to play Lands if you want to turn it into this monstrosity.

1) The tribal Match up is fine. The biggest concern is typically Graveyard hand and Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon/Back to Basics. The best way to handle Tribal is either splash Red (Firespout) or just practice playing through hate while bringing it things like Krosan Grip.

You need Wasteland in the Goblins match up even more than then Merfolk match up (where it is solid) since you can pop their Wastelands AND their Rishadan Ports. Rishadan Port can get around your Maze of Iths. I don't know about you, but I don't like getting smacked in the face by Goblin Piledriver.

2) The only improvement to the deck is underwhelming. Mishra's Factory may not be a great kill condition, but nothing you've added kills your opponent that much better. One of the reasons that Mishra's Factory was the kill condition of the deck was the overall synergy. If you drew it earlier, you could pitch it to Mox Diamond. You could drop it while using Manaborn/Exploration. It gives you plenty of mana to waste on all the crap you have to do. It wasn't chosen for speed, but for the fact that it gives you inevitability and will earn you concessions faster after you get a soft lock going.

3) Tolaria Waste is now a staple in Lands. It lets you find your Tabernacle now without any bullshit. The reason Gamble isn't used anymore is that Tolaria West does a better job and Intuition sets up Loam abuse better.
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Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

EmoNinjaSuck wrote:

You need Wasteland in the Goblins match up even more than then Merfolk match up (where it is solid) since you can pop their Wastelands AND their Rishadan Ports. Rishadan Port can get around your Maze of Iths. I don't know about you, but I don't like getting smacked in the face by Goblin Piledriver.

quoted for the lulz
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