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still standard playable, dredge?



 
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think jund stopped playing sb jund charm for the most part and I have never seen a bog in my meta. Fast red decks have decreased in popularity but are still around. Only thing you really have to worry about is there are a lot of decks playing stoneforge/collar/sledge which might make playing a burnish deck like this one a bit harder.
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Vesti



Joined: 21 Nov 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:49 am    Post subject: You're doing it wrong Reply with quote

with crabs, this deck really wants 8 fetchlands, dual lands are not as important, my build uses 4 scalding tarns, 2 flats/catacombs[whatever you have], and 2 terramorphic[for getting any color you need]. Another trick with the deck, instead of milling three and then getting a land, with the crab trigger on the stack, get your land, shuffle, then mill 6 cards off the top of your deck with -1 land in it. ^^.

One last thing, don't forget 2x kederekt leviathan, they'll bounce planeswalkers.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the most testing with this deck of any person on the planet, guaranteed.

// Lands
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [ZEN] Crypt of Agadeem
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
5 [ALA] Swamp (4)
6 [M10] Island (3)

// Creatures
4 [ZEN] Hedron Crab
4 [CFX] Rotting Rats
4 [ARB] Monstrous Carabid
4 [ARB] Architects of Will
4 [ALA] Viscera Dragger
4 [CFX] Extractor Demon
2 [ALA] Fatestitcher
4 [ALA] Sedraxis Specter
1 [ALA] Kederekt Leviathan
2 [ALA] Corpse Connoisseur

// Spells
2 [ZEN] Grim Discovery
2 [M10] Tome Scour

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Kederekt Leviathan
SB: 4 [M10] Duress
SB: 4 [M10] Deathmark
SB: 4 [M10] Negate
SB: 2 [ALA] Dregscape Zombie

I've toyed around with every single combination of relevant cards. I find that having 4 grim discovery (and at times...ANY) is too much. The card really doesn't do anything. I simply use it as Crypts 5-6 against matchups that want to kill it or make me discard at some point.

Tome Scour is good... but in current standard with aggro being what it is I find it better to have more tangible dudes to lay down and then chump to add to the count than just tome scouring.

I would say that playing CipT lands is a mistake. You're not going off on the turn you should with them, and their inclusion is probably not needed. There is hardly ever a time where activating one of them is better than just digging into the graveyard and bringing back something that does something.

My gameplan was always to just attack them when I can. People who just pick this up off the street assume its best to alpha-strike...that's not the case. If you can just flash back a specter and know its going to hit, do it. You're "Count" in the GY doesn't need to be over 7 at any point unless they're gaining life in some way.

I have very rarely used my sideboard, no matter what is in it. Deathmark is good for killing baneslayer, which is about the only guy I ever didn't want to see.

Also remember, you can mill them with the demon...I win with that about 1/8'th the time I play.

This deck might not be a legit tier 2, but it certainly has atleast an above average matchup against jund (guy who mentioned jund charm thinks it actually helps...It won't if you have experience with this deck), Probably against the new UW (haven't tested this in a while) and can CERTAINLY beat mono red if you play it right.
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Insom



Joined: 19 Dec 2008
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would casting jund charm in response to you unearthing a demon or killing a couple crabs on turn 3 not help the jund player?
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Insom wrote:
How would casting jund charm in response to you unearthing a demon or killing a couple crabs on turn 3 not help the jund player?


uhm, it slows you down obviously, but its nowhere near a blowout card if you know how to play around it.

its like, a counterspell with an added drawback basically.
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P_P4E



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shortykid07 wrote:
you really dont like the grim discovery?
i've played with the deck a lot and the card plays well almost regardless the circumstance. do you typicaly mull until your holding a crypt?
even with no crypts to grab it can get you crabs you milled through, fetchlands to thin out the deck and mill yourself more, and if nothing else i usualy grab something to cycle again just to get through the deck.

i do like the fetches might sub out 2 catacombs and 2 terramorpic for 4 scalding tarn


Grim Discovery: What does the card do? It gets back a guy (whom you usually just recycle) and a land (usually a sac land unless a crybt was milled). I'd rather have Ponder to be honest, and I was running it for a while. It was making the draws really, really good too. It's the only thing I would consider making room for. I would never want to draw a 2 discovery hand, and having 4 would make that happen more often. Some people say it's like running 8 crybts...not only is that not true in general its also not necessary. 1 crybt is sometimes even more than you need. I often use it to power out a hardcast extractor more often than just alpha-strike.
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