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New kind of RDW

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Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: New kind of RDW Reply with quote

Please don't leave shitty comment and try to be helpfull, not things like "change all the deck". I can work around some cards, not all
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Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

change all the deck.

lol, kidding. ok, 22 lands seems like too much in a monored deck with howling mine. you could probably cut one colorless and a mountain, maybe. also, is reliquary tower worth it? RDW should be playing over 1 spell each turn.

[strike]and what's you answer to turn 1 Lackey?[/strike] LOL, disregard that.

3 pithing needle maindeck is probably not a good idea, because it's usually a dead card not only in multiples, but if your opponent doesn't use any particular ability. and even if he does (chameleon colossus, for example) they can usually do without it. I'd run 1 at most maindeck.

same applies for everlasting torment, in multiples it's useless.

how about more creatures? figure of destiny sounds good. and why are you running 4 wild ricochets? it costs 4 and is dead without something useful to ricochet.

the card that makes lots of hobgoblins might be good to run as a 1-of for late-game ownage. or maybe chandra.
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Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wild Ricochet, Everlasting Torment and Pithing Needle are not maindeck cards, even in such a special design as this.

Replace them with 3 Earthquake, 2 Shard Volley, 1 Flame Jab, 1 more Howling Mine, 2 Knollspine Invocation and 2 Puncture Blast.

On top of that, Goblin Assault is not good in a deck with no goblin lords, in a meta filled with creatures.

Replace them with 3 Spiteful Visions.

Voila, a deck that does what you (presumably) want it to do. Stop creature decks and burn them to death.
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Joined: 15 Feb 2009
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

but Wild Ricochet is SO MUCH FUN to use! Imagine, Cryptic Command, counter draw. You Wild Ricochet it, then use your copy (which resolves first) to counter THEIR Cryptic and draw your own card. Or if they do the Bounce Draw thing, you Wild Ricochet, bounce their card (change target), let their cryptic resolve, then do a bounce draw of their own. And don't forget to laugh evilly, it really throws off them shitty faggoty blue players off their game when something as unexpected like that happens. That said, don't play with 4 copies mainboard, dude.
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Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol kumagmd Very Happy
* I got the ironic point Smile Btw, it CAN work whit cryptic, ofc not for counterin it but for counter a bounce/draw. Imagine.. you tap lands and go for a spell, they counter, now it's a bit difficult you got 4 mana for ricochet, and even if u have they can counter it easily. Instead, they play something and at eot the choose to bounce one of your card. Surprise... Twisted Evil

I go for a bit of explanation WHY i run those 4 cards maindeck that you say are not good... they are implemented heavily on the deck for some reason, i have tested and have see i go some problems without them.

Wild Ricochet: eh, really, one of my favourite card. Here some example of what this card hit (i wrote this already on the essential magic comment for the card):
Lighting bolt: 6 damage
Flame javelin: 8 damage
Blithing: Opponent take 6 damage and discard 4 cards. GG.
Path of exile: exile TWO enemy creatures
Cruel ultimatum: Negate the effect, if opponent it's at 5 life, gg
Cryptic command: bounce 2 permanent and draw 1 (or counter it and draw 1 card, but's difficult*)
Primal command: 14 life and bounce two permanents to the library... O_o....
Maelstorm pulse: eh
Time warp: you get other 2 turn, that means 3 turns.
Esper charm: discard 4 cards, or destroy two enchant, or draw 2 cards.
90% of the current deck run those cards... and what versus a Primal command? That card KILL any red deck. Even with a torment in play, they can bounce it (killing one draw) and gain 7 life. 7 damage on a deck like mine, it's a flame javelin and a light bolt. Hurt. Wild ricochet imo it's my ass saver ^^
No usefull spell to redirect? You can still copy one of yours for additional damage.

Everlasting torment: Life gain kill red deck. Stop, nothing to say. A simple drop of two kitchen finks is a gg for the opponent. Burreton forge tender is a gg. Lifelink it's a gg. So... why not run this mainly? My deck doesn't go for kill the opponent in first 5 turns, this go for kill it on turn 8+, dropping some goblin assault and kill anything that hit the ground or direct shot the oppoent at eot. All damaging spell here are istant speed, except banefire (that can't be countered), and that's another reason for the ricochet, it nerf all sorcery speed of the opponent. Basically, you stay with all your mana up till eot.
Oh, forgot whiter... If you can't kill them, make them 1/1 or 0/5 Smile

Pithing needle: Wild ricochet, torment and pith are main deck for simple killer card that can own me... other uses are occasionally. For what is pithing up? Planeswalker. A simple garruk can take one or two shot for going down, and still opponent got some nice effect, like a 3/3, two more land and so on. Ajani? 2 life gain each turn? Or talking about elspeth? On the same turn he hit the ground he spamm a 1/1 (that usually it's a 2/2 or 3/3 due to honor of the pure) and go to 5 damage for kill it.
Tezzereth? Make all artifact 5/5? How do you stop them Smile
If opponent doesn't run planes, it's full of cards that you can name for annoy the opponent, from mutavault (saved my ass one time) to figure of destiny, time vault, hellspark elemental, from burreton up to windbrisk heigths.

Goblin assault: Yeah, this seem sick as a 4-6 turn drop. No, it doesn't. If opponent doesn't manage with them, they make a increasing amount of damage that's unnoticed at the beginning but that grow up exponentially. 1 damage, 2 damage next turn, 3 damage next turn... 6 damage with one card with cc 3. Yeah they can die, but they come back. Having a torment with them is pure fun, even if they go blocked enemy creature go resized. If they don't attack for keeping blocking, you gain some time, and time is victory with this deck. I find it's one of the most underrated cards, this card is a pure torment for the opponent when you shot his creatures and got yours refilling each turn. When i have added this first time i got a bounce of more victory, then i leave them (thinked like you that's trash on a middle drop), then start to lose more. Added again and have like four victories (with four deck i mean) in a row. Having two of them is sick, even if you clear the field with a phoenix next turn you got 2 more damage. When you drop this you haven't to think about them, but opponent have Smile

Already tried with earthquake and spitefull... they are more a treath for me than for the opponent. It's not unusual that i take damage from creatures, and doing myself more damage to me and a bit to the opponent is BAD. Tried with a earthquake instead of the magma phoenix too, but goed back to phoenix when haved to manage some flyng guys. Plus, magma can block and help me avoid damage.

One reliquiary is for mill deck ^^ Eh, i drop one howling mine, they drop another mine... Hey i need time for play my tricks, and i like to play them at eot not in my main phase Smile

Version before was with 21 lands and 4 howling mine, but get manascrewed Smile Btw, howling mine is a "discutible" card, on aggro deck it's a suicide card, and it's better to be dropped on turn 5-7 when opponent is out of card and you already have a bit of control on the field. Same for mirror vs "normal" rdw, dropping it on turn 2 is like sayng: hey i'm a firecamp, take this tanic of fuel and get that on me.

In conclusion... eh, you can think what the hell he want if he says "no" to all our suggestion. Think that is dued because i haven't esplained well how this deck is going for...

Skipping the problem you got with normal rdw, that lost until u get opponent down in first 4-5 turns

What this deck needed (and where suggestion has to be orientated):
- Survivability (aka magma phoenix, volc fallout, wild ricochet, pithing needle, maybe i could add dark temper/veinfire borderpost for take off big guy like baneslayer angel, but haven't space)
- Sustained damage (aka magma phoenix, goblin assault, everlasting torment, unearth - but unearth go for one usage only)

Ok work on this two points Smile
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:45 am    Post subject: Not a real expert,but please let me tell this... Reply with quote

Hi, against Everlasting Torment (too much copies my opinion) may I propose Stigma Lasher? If it pass just one time... Life-gain bye bye forever ^^ and also maybe you can transform it in an emergency chump-blocker...

Wild Ricochet it's really good for me, simply I wish to put more firepower, maybe one extra howling and for sure, some good creature or all-purpose card... Pithing Needle it's really hard to use effectively for example, when you have two of them in hand, one it's quite a dead draw and methinks in a true RDW it's like giving some air to breathe to your opposing player... Fulminator Mage can still give some really annoying problem in this format, and Spiteful Visions, maybe exchanged 2-for-2 against Everlasting Torment, is another interesting idea, though it's a 4cc card (maybe you can remove one copy of Ricochet). Also, Figure of Destiny it's quite a good addon here... Happy blasting! ^^
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Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Not a real expert,but please let me tell this... Reply with quote

Jools wrote:
Hi, against Everlasting Torment (too much copies my opinion) may I propose Stigma Lasher? If it pass just one time... Life-gain bye bye forever ^^

It's that "IF" that i didn't like Smile

Plus, Everlasting go trough damage absorption/prevention, and isn't subject to CREATURE REMOVAL, and in the current metagame it's FILL of creature removal. It's for this reason that the only creature that i run (phoenix) can be take from grave... eh... And again, why lowering cards that save me Smile

I got two games between the posts... One versus a kind of a mirror deck, except he's blue/red... He got game one because the time he bounced my goblin assault with a cryptic, TAPPING ALL OUR LANDS, i haven't a wild in my hand (and 4 lands untapped on the field was waiting for it). Later, he shot me an incendiary command, tapping all land, and again no ricochet. He shotted me a lot, and i drawed just one later game, that it's countered (he end at 4 life).
G2 i side in my claws (siding out torment ofc), and he disconnect when i drop the second ._.

Another game versus a polymorph deck with progenitus. G1 i burn it till die. G2 he polymorphed progenitus... I change my playstyle, g3 he tried to polymorph trhee time.
On first trial he silence me, and in response i volc fallout. Ok....
On first trial again, he polymorphed, i magma sprayed, he countered my magma spray and.... WILD RICOCHET!
On second trial, he polymorphed, again magma spray, again he countered, and again... WILD RICOCHET! Except this time i take the polymorph on my goblin and call from the library a magma phoenix Cool gg

Fulminator is the kind of card i like, except he got nerfed with m10 and can't block/destroy now :/ If i can change a card i will opt for howling mine, not for wild ricochet, that's a killer one. I think i could have problem with aggro, heat shimmer is for big guys like broodrom dragon and doran, but i can consider some manabarbs.

What about manabarbs guys? Btw it has the same problem of earthquake and spitefull vision (that's an horrible card imo - stop say i have to put it, he kill me more than opponent Evil or Very Mad )
If only i could call back shunt for those perky trace of abundance on manaramps...
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I'm thinking about Flamekin Harbinger and Ball Lightning... But these are right 8 cards and thinking about that means to change the true nature of your deck, so...
The proposal about Stigma Lasher is just an idea who came from the tip of my tongue at the moment, but methinks still it's quite a good choice, providing you have also Figure of Destiny maindeck (two major problems is better than one ^^). Many decks in this format can deal against creatures, you're right, but you have the speed on your side. For example casting a Terminate against one of your Lashers in play while you're with FOUR untapped lands can be very dangerous... While destroying an enchantment can't give any real annoying reaction to me (your oppo): maybe you can cast another, but in the while I can breathe and gain some life... If you manage to pass with a Stigma or force me to deal with it (thus NOT dealing with YOU for the moment... You gain tempo, ins't it? After all you're the one with many low-cc spells! ^^) you're surely on the good line for winning, but it's of course a matter of different point of view.

Excuse me for any errors I'm not english nor american, I'm italian ^^
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Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

E che cavolo! LMFAO!
Ebb a sto punto dammi msn e ci sentiamo li Mr. Green

Traduction: wtf i'm italian mee too XD Sorry all for bad english
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ah ah! Beh non potevo saperlo...

Anyway here's more correct to write in english ^^ and for this day I've one last tips: maybe putting one of these two good creatures? Hellspark Elemental or Hell's Thunder (damn 4/4 flyer with haste @ 3cc - quite shocking, even if must be sacrificed!)... Consider that both of them are Elementals also.

@Blood_Magus:Magari la prossima volta mi piazzo pi fisso online e ci scambiamo quattro sberle a Magic via MWS (e sono uno dei pochi possessori con licenza originale regolarmente acquistata!!!), certamente in futuro ci si potrebbe scambiare un contatto, ma al momento presto e io del resto sto poco tempo al PC in questo periodo... A presto compaesano!!! ^^
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Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

K Smile
Btw, both the card are for burst style (like i-win-on-first-5-turn) and i need sustained damage style
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Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wild Ricochet opens yourself up to two for 1's vs blue decks. It's not that good.
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Joined: 17 May 2009
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm planning changing the deck a bit.

-3 howling mine +3 armillary sphere.
Howling mine benefit too much other decks. Ok armillary is not like "draw 2 card", but's like "look for 2 lands in your library so you don't go screw with your hand and you don't go flood with next draw". Plus, help a bit vs vendilion clique.

-4 torment +4 puncture blast
Don't ask me why i go for this Smile Changed a bit the way i overtake burreton, so i replace this with one more shot. This work the same with a Kitchen, and help kill big guys (basically, the things that torment do), but now i can chose when using it. Plus, can still damage the opponent.

4 pithing needle go in side instead of heat shimmer
Hey, i got Puncture blast for doran now. BTW heat shimmer it's always a good card vs trigger guys (reveillark, legend killer, broodrom dragon, siege-gang comm and so on), so i can always put it back

-3 mountain +3 mutavault (total lands 22, 21 are too low imo)
A bit of more damage.

Now i got 3 place in deck... thinked about dolmen gate/shared animosity, or maybe i can still run 3 torment. I will try with some siege-gang commander for now, that are a "bigger" card that can do a good work itself as a later drop. Loxodon warhammer was the perfect fill card that i need (eh.. big damage, big life gain that now i don't run for torment) but it's out Razz
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Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DoomBring3r wrote:
TehDudeAbide wrote:
Wild Ricochet opens yourself up to two for 1's vs blue decks. It's not that good.

That's why you only play it when they're tapped out.

Blue decks don't tap out often.
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Methinks now Reliquary Tower can be removed at all since there are no mines and simply because it's quite better to enforce the Mutavault count. So 4 Mutavault and it's quite good for starters ^^

Armillary Sphere...? Maybe two of them and you can think to put another Banefire maindeck. Your list has only one Banefire right now I'm writing. Why? Just adding more firepower in this deck it's not going all the way downsizing the winning percentage.

I'm thinking also about drawing percentage, obviously a serious problem when talking about monored decks. You say this deck is intended for some sort of control and sustained damage, and I really appreciate the whole design (played a couple o' times with real cards - but I haven't followed exactly your list & guidelines - repeated, I prefer to play for damage rush, massive firepower coming from the very first turns or surrender at all ^^), but honestly I'm quite sure that this deck need a whole different approach. Goblin Assault starts to become interesting at 4th/5th turn, personally I prefer to shot some other menaces. Manabarbs can be very useful but it's trimmed exactly to your chances to make the enemy going really low on lifepoints compared to you - but this cards it's really better for me against goblin assault for example. Chump blocking? When you're in need of chump blocking, and you play monored... I fear you're going to losing the game anyway. Lightning Bolt MUST be maximized, 4 copies are quite easy to draw than 3 and so the same for Flame Javelin which can be very dangerous in some key situation.

+2 Manabarbs, +1 Lightning Bolt, +1 Flame Javelin, -4 Goblin Assault
-1 Reliquary Tower, +1 Mutavault, -1 Armillary Sphere, +1 Banefire
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