RDW in Block

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 469

I don't know how to build this properly, but it seems like the time is now for RDW. People say that it will not be successful in block because of Kitchen Finks and Primal Command, but one deck plays those (quick 'n'toast) and Kithkin + Faeries are 2/3 of the field. I feel like it should be easy to overrun Faeries with burn. Kithkin could swarm you, but I feel like if you play a land-heavy version, that Incendiary Command would be really great in any mu; 4 to the face plus wasteland against Faeries, 4 to the face plus a pyroclasm against kithkin. You could enhance this by utilizing 3 toughness guys like boggart ram-gang, countryside crusher or branching into green for vanquisher and colossus. Of course, the crusher doesn't play well with 5-mana cards. So I don't know what direction to go in. I'd also consider wanting all red creatures because I think that Burn Trail has a place in block, especially in the late game when your Tattermunge Maniac is useless. 4 mana for 6 damage is not bad at all. Also, I think you would really want to play Flamekin Bladewhirl, but working in enough elementals is tough.

Another strategy would be to try and make a deck that plays around firespout, but that is not easy and firespout has the unfortunate effect of not hitting the face.

I feel like RDW could be really good here...

Here is a sample straight burn version without much tech:

4 Flamekin Bladewhirl
4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Spiteflame Witch
4 Vexing Shusher
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
2 Ashenmoor Gouger

4 Lash Out
4 Burn Trail
4 Flame Javelin
3 Tarfire

4 Auntie's Hovel
4 Graven Cairns
15 Mountain

Not that techy, I know. I feel like the deck should run Mutavaults, but the 3-drops are the main problem with that. This version should probably run Countryside Crusher, but I wanted enough elementals to include Flamekin Bladewhirl. The Spiteflame Witch enables it, and also has another beneficial ability when the ground is clogged, and that is the reason for the black-producing lands, which aren't a hassle since they all produce red all the time. They may also enable sideboard options in black like Shriekmaw or Bitterblossom.

As much as I want Incendiary Command to work, I don't think it will because you really can't afford to draw that much land in this kind of deck; maybe that would work in some kind of GR ramp deck.

Here are my thoughts on this initial sketch-

1.) I want Mutavaults, but I'm afraid I won't be able to cast Shusher or Ram-Gang. Maybe I'll just put 2 in.

2.) Countryside Crusher might be a worthwhile 3-drop, as might Fulminator Mage (plus he's an Elemental, so he may just be better than Gouger). I feel like the Ram-Gangs are a must, though, because of the haste and they also allow you to play Auntie's Hovel untapped (though this is a merely tangential reason).

3.) Shard Volley could have a place, especially with Crusher, but I almost always hate that card, and this deck does have a lot of 3-drops as well as Burn Trail at 4.

4.) Demigod of Revenge or Deus of Calamity seem strong, but they probably don't fit in this version.

5.) Nameless Inversion is a good idea and helps with reveals, but I'd rather stick with spells that can guarantee burn to the face.

6.) With 12 goblin creatures and room to fit a few more, would Fodder Launch have a place? Maybe in the sideboard?

Any feedback appreciated...I'd love to find something that could beat up on kithkin and faeries, while punting the control matchups, as I expect kithkin and faeries to be popular decks at the first few ptq's.

I want to edit everything I just ranted about. It just occurred to me that Spiteflame Witch and Vexing Shusher are shamans, so Rage Forger seems like a natural 3-drop, which makes me want to change my 1-drops to shamans also, even though getting rid of 2/1's seems stupid. But they do suck against bitterblossom. However, Incandescent Soulstoke pumps them as well, so maybe this is the way to go. Here's what I've got in mind now:

4 Intimidator Initiate
4 Flamekin Harbinger
4 Sunflare Shaman
4 Spiteflame Witch
4 Rage Forger
4 Incandescent Soulstoke

4 Burn Trail
4 Lash Out
4 Flame Javelin
2 Tarfire

4 Graven Cairns
4 Primal Beyond
4 Mutavault
10 Mountain

Comments on either decklist more than welcome.

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 904

rdw is not good in block

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 469

best feedback ever?

R3wind · Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 954

Tauren Mauler and Crusher are beasts vs Kithken. Tauren Mauler on 3 will slow down decks like Kithken as they can't handle how big he gets. (They must have Crib Swap or O-Ring. Most versions don't play either) Why would you play Incendiary Command over a minor green splash for Firespout? (Def better at 3 damage over 2 and lower cost)

Scar (Kitchen Finks) or Wheel of Sun and Moon handle Finks and part of Primal Command. Everlasting Torment takes care of the life gain from both of the above cards.

Also one or two Titan's Revenge is a great vs non blue decks. It can make the differance in a match win or match loss.

mysterstelth · Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 1

puncture bolt would be better than scar it'll do the 1 damage then put a counter and block the persist with a 2 toughness

i think this deck could work in block but its probably tier 2, losing mogg fanatic, incinerate, and keldon marauders really hurts

taurean mauler and countryside crusher are your best options here at finisher too boartusk liege would be very solid here as well. . . perhaps a r/g warrior build?

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 469

Puncture Bolt is not a bad idea to deal with Finks.

I originally brought up Incendiary Command because Firespout kills most of my own creatures.

I had in mind a warrior build originally too, something like this:

4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Flamekin Bladewhirl
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 Countryside Crusher
4 Chameleon Colossus

obviously that is too many creatures, and there are no reveals for Bladewhirl beyond Colossus, and I don't know where or not to include battle axe, but trample does seem very good in this metagame (Paragon)

R3wind · Joined: 24 Jul 2006 Posts: 954

Tribal Artifact - Warrior Equipment, 3 (3)

Equip {3}.Equipped creature gets +2/+1 and has haste.Whenever a Warrior creature comes into play, you may attach Obsidian Battle-Axe to it.

It's the flint that sparks a warrior's rage.

Illus. Jeff Easley

It does not give trample but haste is also very good. I would not play 4 or anything. 2-3 should be good.

D_A · Joined: 02 Jun 2008 Posts: 3

The problem with Red Decks in block right now is that it loses fuel WAY TOO FAST. Minus Flame Javelin, against an opposing Doran/Chalemeon Colossus you MUST 2 for 1 with a burn spell and a body.

So straight fast aggro is not the way to go with red right now. We playtested a couple of games of Luis-Scott Vargas' "Doran" against various speed red deck (even trying a goblin route via Auntie Snitch as a black splash) and the results are really pretty awful for the red deck :X.

So unless there is some super hidden tech that makes you deal with huge fatties without much mana with a single card in Mono-Red... well I think so too that it's "bad in block".

About 50/50 vs faeries, loses to Kithkin, loses to any midrange... not good stats if you ask me.

Oh and straight auto-loose to an accelerated Oversoul of Dusk or early Firespout/Kitchen Finks (both played in Quik'n Toast).

Maybe a more Midrange Green/Red warrior could do it, but Im pretty sure the so popular "Red Deck Win" doesnt stand a chance in Block Lorwyn right now.

Jayx · Joined: 05 Jun 2008 Posts: 8

Something you can try with a RDW build is Dont make it mono red. Try a R/B varient since there are some really good black early and mid range cards you can use. Try using bitter blossom since creatures are great in a aggro deck. Another card you can try is Redcap, since its a body that deals damage to the face or a body on the field. The reasons i bring this black addition is so you can try Torrent of Souls. Yes its 5 mana but it gives all your creatures +2/+0 and haste, and brings back one of you beaters.

4 Tattermunge Maniac
4 Boggart Ram Gang
4 Aunties Snitch
4 Murderous Redcap
3 Taurian Mauler

4 Bitterblossom
3 Torrent of Souls
3 Punture Bolt
4 Lash Outs
4 Flame Javalin

4 Graven Cairns
4 Auntie's Hovel
3 Mutavault
10 Mountains
2 Swamps

Sideboard

3 Faerie Macabre
3 Everlasting torment
2 vexing shusher
4 Gutteral Response
3 Earwig squad

Tattermunge maniac-is a great one drop, mediocre 2 drop and anything after that it really isnt all that great but since it is a goblin we like it.

Boggart Ram-gang-3/3 with haste and wither all for only 3 mana great card/ removal if they want to block with say a collosus you make it a 1/1.

Auntie's Snitch- A good 3 drop or 2 drop if you hit with your maniac, and it recurs itself to be an everlasting threat.

Murderous Redcap-Great creature and removal since it has persist you dont mind blocking with it.

Taurian Mauler-a fantastic three drop against control since there really isnt any hard creature kill that hits a changling, and a nice beater.

Bitterblossom- Great against the Fae and nice token producer for second turn its a must.

Torrent of souls- This card is good since you can recur say a redcap deal 4 damage to a creature or the face and swing with your tokens, and all your other creatures with a +2 to the power of all your creatures and gives the one you just brought back haste.

Puncture Bolt- Mainly a combat trick or to get rid of the kitchen finks and not have it come back for another round.

Lash Out- Used to get creatures out of the way and scry, really good removal spell

Flame Javalin- Just plain old good.

Sideboard

Faerie Macabre- Against any deck that plays mannaquin or graveyard as a way to boost its self.

Everlasting Torment- Against lifegain and fat creatures to wither them down.

Vexing shusher- just against Fae and Control to help you beat the annoying control magic.

Gutteral Response- Used against control to stop cryptic from tapping your creatures and drawing or stop mirror weave since it is a blue instant spell.

Earwig Squad- For against Any deck with a form of mass removal you just get rid of it.

toguppy · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 299

have you considered the 1 drop goblin that prevents blocking yet....

oh and also if you go black red consider the 1 life land as it works quite nicely with bitterblossom.

been playtesting a bit and running both javelin and fodder launch to run over the control decks. and also to finish people off. but using both the 1 rop goblin and spite witch aswell as the life land makes for alot of plinking

Tritemio · Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 40

I try this decklist

// Lands
16 [ON] Swamp (2)
4 [LRW] Auntie's Hovel
4 [SHM] Graven Cairns

// Creatures
3 [SHM] Murderous Redcap
4 [SHM] Bloodmark Mentor
4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [SHM] Tattermunge Maniac
4 [SHM] Boggart Ram-Gang
3 [SHM] Demigod of Revenge

// Spells
2 [LRW] Nameless Inversion
4 [LRW] Tarfire
4 [LRW] Lash Out
4 [SHM] Flame Javelin

Oona is the last chance of a good creature at 2CC
Bloodmark make Ram-Gang a sort of indestructibility

AOCharm · Joined: 30 Mar 2008 Posts: 50

If i was gonna play it block this is prolly what my setup would be

[deck] // Lands
20 Mountain
4 Fire-Lit Thicket

// Creatures
4 Ashenmoor Gouger
4 Demigod of Revenge
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Boggart Ram-Gang
4 (look at list below)

// Spells
4 Flame Javelin
4 Firespout
4 Tarfire
4 Lash Out

// SB
4 Everlasting Torment
4 Faerie Macabre
4 Vexing Shusher

Empty 4 slot
Shard Volley
Murderous Redcap
Countryside Crusher
Tattermunge Maniac
Taurean Mauler

While this is a bit creature heavy i'd say its your best bet.
Fire-Lit Thicket is in there for faeries to deal with flyers.
If I played Countryside Crusher i'd prolly move out Boggart Ram-Gang and throw Tattermunge Maniac to have a nice stable curve. Same with Taurean Mauler and Ashenmoor Gouger.