Cool cards that no one plays...Reanimate and Desolation.

Black_Dog · Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 159

I'm tired of these forums being a complete brain-fart for proper strategy discussions. So lets talk about cards.
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Reanimate

B

Sorcery

Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your control. You lose life equal to its converted mana cost.
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This, imo, is a power play card that nearly no one in the M-L or even in MWS circles utilizes. Kill pesky creature, then drop a reanimate and take the goddamn thing. Let your opponent waste one of his creature control spells on his own creature.

I like it so much that I've started to run 3 in the MD of my Pox deck. You can SB them out very easy and for a deck such as Pox where you're blowing up everything on the board it makes loads of sense to run such a card.

I've had loads of situations where I'll force a player to discard via Thoughtsieze, Hymm, Small or Big Pox. Then drop a Reanimate the same round and take that fat Tarm or Djinn or Confidant, etc. Possibilities are wide open. The card rocks.

Anyway, food for thought.

next card is
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Desolation

1BB

Enchantment

At the end of turn, each player who tapped a land for mana this turn, sacrifices a land. If a Plains was sacrificed this way, Desolation deals 2 damage to that Plains's controller.
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Granted now this is more of a SB card but its powerful enough where you could run Crucible and pretty much force your opponent to blow up his own lands if you can't for him. The 2 damage effect is a nice touch, giving it more love for SB real estate.

Drop a turn 2 sinkhole then a turn 3 desolation? Nasty.

RichardDWade · Joined: 20 Mar 2006 Posts: 438

agreed.

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 491

The first card is nice but you need to have it in a right deck. Pox is allright for that. But in a format where most of the removals remove creatures from play and you dont play more removal. I thin you get the point.

The second card is hmmm. 1. it doesnt realy help you against combo decks by turn 3 they usually have accumulated all the cards they need.(taking ritual or moxes out of cosideration) The same thing happens against real aggro decks. By turn 3 they dont even need to tap mana to kill you so you hurt yourself more then you hurt them. And i think you lose the lands you used to play Desolation. You could maybe play it with a lot of moxes to power it also out turn one. Combined with trinisphere and stuff. But you need to build a hole deck around it. There are a lot of cards where you could build a deck around and noone does.

But at the end i want to say i think its nice to see cards where you see potential. I would like to see more cards like that. Smile

nico · Administrator Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 804

You need to put a card in it's right environment. Look at reanimate:

CardName: Reanimate
Cost: B
Type: Sorcery
Pow/Tgh: /
Rules Text: Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your control. You lose life equal to its converted mana cost.
Set/Rarity: Battle Royale Box Set Uncommon, Tempest Uncommon

The last line is most important: the card is from tempest, and therefor it is only playable in legacy and vintage, and in those formats there are other powerhouses to play.
You say you steal an opponents creature with it, but in legacy there are many decks that run no creatures or just very small creatures (goblins for example), so you have to build your deck around it.
Ane example deck would be something like the reanimator decks in extended a few years ago that ran entomb and reanimate to power out a turn 1 akroma, or verdant force,backed up by contamination. Those decks are a bit quirky and rely heavily on good mulligan decisions/gambling, but can be lots of fun to play.
The problem is that the key card that makes reanimate so strong is banned in all formats, besides vintage, in wich it is restricted.

Greetz Nico

Black_Dog · Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 159

It's why I posted in the Legacy forum Razz

You can pick a set of 4 Reanimates for 4 dollars (US), which is great considering the theirs a big myth from Legacy that you have to pay craploads of money to make a decent deck.

You're right about Legacy decks not running many creatures, yet what creatures are common in Legacy?

Siege-Gang Commander? Worth the 5 life
Dark Confidant? Worth 2 life
Tarm? Definately worth 2 life.
Eternal Angel? Possibly (7 life)
Exalted Angel? Possibly (6 life)
Sea Drake/Djinn? 3 Life.
Suntered Ghoul? Dies instantly if you have no creatures in your graveyard but you screwed their deck.
Ichorid? 4 Life and you nuke all their bridges EOT.

and the best of course...

Squee...talk about sandbag...

Lotta creatures worth taking.

Anyway, the point is, for decks like Pox, light control that splashes black but doesn't have solid win conditions, or would like to add another bit more of a "Curve Ball" to their control strategy, Reanimate is a great option, cheap in RL, easily boarded out to make room for a more concreate card choice for G2 and highly underplayed.

Desolation is, granted a far more specific card. But if I was running anything land based, or Land D. based, I'd MD it. It's worse than a re-occuring wasteland.

PS: Keysam, I'm not a guy with a RL rating of 1900+, but I know enough that a big misconception in Legacy is that its a turn 3 format.

In a perfect world it would be. But generally its not. Not everyone runs decks like TES and Iggy, etc; and most those decks get raped in the Metagame.

We should keep this dialogue open. I never even heard of Desolation until I was farting around in the MWS database for some White control.

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 491

Yea your right black dog its not a 3 turn format but you should make your turn 3 play better be something real good. And Desolation isnt that hot i mean you cut yourself down. It doesnt help against aggro it doesnt help against combo, i said there maybe a deck that can play this card and still be solid. Good enough for tier 1 or 2? not sure.

nico · Administrator Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 804

The point I am making is that you can never rely on your opponent to run creatures worth taking. Also, the cards that you mention are in decks that usualy have ways to deal with what you are trying.
The angels and sea drake are usually in decks that run counterspells.
Ichorid nuking the bridges? you better read bridge again, and know what you do with a creature that is owned by the opponent when it goes to a graveyard. (a hint, it never goes to yours)
same goes with squee. It will go to your opponents graveyard when it dies.
The point of decks that run sutured ghouls is to reanimate them. If you reanimate it in your turn, you lose 7 life, it goes to the opponent's graveyard, and he happily keeps on bashing your head.
Siege gang commander? you are talking about a 2/2 creature that you reanimet against a deck with usually burn enough to kill it the instant it comes into play. Let alone that a red deck laughs at you when you willingly pay 5 life, for a creature who's ability most likely will be of no use to you.
confidant also is a card that is run in a deck that has burn or other removal, so that is of no use for you either.
A competitive deck that runs reanimates will have to have targets to put in the graveyard from their own library, thus you can choose wich big angry body can be reanimated.
Like the possible play swamp ritual cabal ritual your own akroma, reanimate.(ok, 5 card combo, so, higly unlikely but still). What I mean to say, there are better ways to use reanimate than stealing a creature from your opponent's graveyard.

Greetz Nico

sc4rs · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 389

I agree with nico on all but one point: Playing Reanimate on an opponent's Dark Confidant is a perfectly legitimate (and very good) play. Two life is hardly a problem, and you force your opponent to either waste removal on it or let you net card advantage.

Think about it this way: If you had an option to play your own Dark Confidant for B instead of 1B but you had to pay 2 life when you played it, even MORE people would play it than already do.

nico · Administrator Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 804

My point is that you must not make reanimating your opponent's creatures your main strategy. I mean, from all of the options, reanimating the confidant is indeed the best one, but it is in no way a winning strategy. You must never make yourself dependent of the opponent's deck to win a game.

Greetz Nico

lennin · Guest

how does reanimating a sutured ghoul help if you have no creatures in your graveyard

Black_Dog · Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 159

Nico: This was never a post about making a deck completely around Reanimate or Desolation, so try not to call it that. Christ no and it was never said.

Now, you're right about Ghoul and Ichorid (mainly cause they dot go in your grave). Was my mistake.

You can have your opinion, but after testing for 2 weeks in RL and here, Reanimate is def getting priority in a Black splashed control or hybrid control/aggro in my decks.

Squee is actually a good example b/c once you take it, what are they gonna do? Swords it? Most decks only pack one Squee anyway for their combo.

Confidant, Tarm, etc are great forms. I'd much rather coax an opponent to using their own removal spells on their own creatures while I bait my time to cast my own. Even Siege Gang Commander if not to let a shitty red aggro player use his burn spells on them and Not me (the smart move).

It's not about using it as your win condition, but about using it as a Curve Ball form of disruption.

lolocaust · Joined: 19 Sep 2007 Posts: 4

unearth tends to work better in the decks that reanimate would see play in.

goyf and confidant both are better with unearth, plus if necessary it has cycling.

unearth > reanimate in all non-reanimator based strategies, and in reanimator based strategies,

exhume > reanimate since you are bringing back large creatures and the creature they get back, if any, should not trump yours.

Thorns · Joined: 16 Aug 2006 Posts: 807 Location: Rath

For a dedicated Reanimator deck, Stitch Together works better than Reanimate. And so does Exhume and Unearth (though a little less). The reason that that Pox deck runs only 2 Reanimate is that it has no threats on its own side worth Reanimating. Sure you can Reanimate Tombstalker and lose 8 life, but that's not worth it, is it? Especially when you're losing a third of your life every time you play a Pox. Personally, I think one Reanimate is more than enough in a Pox build like that.

On to Desolation. Honestly, the card just blows. Bottomless Pit is a better card against control and aggro and combo, and no one plays it. Why? Because it hits you too. And Desolation is even worst because you get hit first. The lands you tap to play it do trigger it. What it basically does is keep you at 3 lands, if you played it with 3 lands out that is, and your opponent one higher, if they hit all their land drops. It just makes the game harder for both players, but doesn't give any player an advantage over the other.

Black_Dog · Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 159

yeah i run three reanimates (with a boarded fourth). But if Im not playing a creature heavy deck then they're boarded out asap for more control.

Unearth is nice idea.

Again these aren't main deck strategies but more or less alternate cards that are good and can easily work their way into a deck for possible competitive play.

Tuesday · Joined: 03 Jun 2005 Posts: 4

I'd say stick with the Reanimate. Losing 2 life to Reanimate a Tarmogoyf is always worth it. Most decks run it or at least some other viable option. And of course if the deck doesn't use creatures (or worthwhile creatures) you can always side them out. I don't see what else needs to be said. Tuesday