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Forums of Magic-League: Free Online Magic: the Gathering Play with Apprentice and Magic Workstation; casual or tournament play.
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Jorbes
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 249
Location: Netherland
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 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: Need a little help explaining Pickle |
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As i'd like to play this combo in a casual game this weekend and my friends are not so-so with the rules, I need a clear explanation, preferably with some pointers to the CompRules,
as to why this combo works.
I feel/see/believe/know that it does, but how to explain this to a ... ahum... 'noobish' crowd? |
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rickiep00h
Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 45
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:13 am Post subject: |
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While I don't believe that this situation, in particular, is in the comprehensive rules, just about all the situations that can arise with Vesuvan Shapeshifter are explained in the Gatherer entry. The particular ruling you want is as follows:
"If Vesuvan Shapeshifter is turned face up, the process of turning it face up includes (optionally) choosing another feature in play. You'll pay 1U (not the morph cost for the new creature, if any), then Vesuvan Shapeshifter will turn face up as a copy of that creature, plus the triggered ability it gives itself. It won't turn up as a Vesuvan Shapeshifter and then change. If the copied creature had a 'when this creature is turned face up' ability, then it will trigger for Vesuvan Shapeshifter."
Everyone I have ever met thinks it's the stupidest ruling in Magic in a long, long time. While from a flavor standpoint it kind of works, from a sheer logic standpoint, it doesn't seem like it should work that way. But it does, and now we have to deal with it.
Fortunately, the Pickles combo can take a while to set up, so at least there's that. |
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Amaterasu
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 70
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Laplie
League Staff
Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 533
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| rickiep00h wrote: |
Everyone I have ever met thinks it's the stupidest ruling in Magic in a long, long time. While from a flavor standpoint it kind of works, from a sheer logic standpoint, it doesn't seem like it should work that way. But it does, and now we have to deal with it. |
It makes perfect sense to me. It works exactly the same way that Clone, Meddling Mage, and other "as this comes into play" things work. Clone doesn't come into play as itself then change into the creature, it comes into plays as the creature (if it didn't it would die for being a 1/1).
So it makes sense that shapeshifter is turned face up as the creature and not as itself.
If you don't like those examples, think of something like Glorious Anthem. If you have glorious anthem out, a savannah lion doesn't come into play as a 2/1 then change into a 3/2. It comes into play as a 3/2. That the way static abilities work. |
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iKe
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 524
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Laplie wrote: | | [ (if it didn't it would die for being a 1/1). |
Don't you mean a 0/0  |
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