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Forums of Magic-League: Free Online Magic: the Gathering Play with Apprentice and Magic Workstation; casual or tournament play.
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ck3gds
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 234
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 Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:17 pm Post subject: No ideas for a name yet, but here it is anyway... |
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Hi all, it's the wacky deck builder again. My previous deck, Blowup, was well-received by everyone, in the sense that I didn't get a lot of flaming, for which I'm very grateful. Here I come again to present you with another flame-worthy deck.
Bashing with creatures is what I like. Bashing with non-creature creatures is what I enjoy when I enjoy at the expense of my opponent - imagine you getting conked in the head by a walking tree branch...
Then Planar Chaos came, and then... Life and Limb looks like a very interesting card to me. Make Saprolings, use Saprolings to make more Saprolings...
Anyway, I haven't thought of a name for this deck yet, so it shall be (nameless) for now. Presenting to you... (nameless) v1.0
LANDS
9 Plains
11 Forest
3 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
CREATURES
4 Ohran Viper
4 Selesnya Guildmage
4 Weathered Wayfarer
2 Thelonite Hermit
1 Verdeloth the Ancient
SPELLS
4 Harmonize
4 Supply // Demand
4 Earth Surge
4 Life and Limb
4 Sacred Ground
2 Doubling Season
Some explanation on the cards I chose:
Ohran Viper - damned if you block, damned if you don't
Selesnya Guildmage - a bear which produces saprolings is always nice
Weathered Wayfarer - originally my deck had a single Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth to try and add black in this deck, but I took it out. This card will be replaced with something...I don't know what for now
Thelonite Hermit - pumps my saprolings, makes more of them... =)
Verdeloth the Ancient - see above
Harmonize - green Concentrate
Supply (// Demand) - more, more!
Earth Surge - with Life and Limb in play, it's like boosting each saproling by +3/+3... <3
Doubling Season - more, more, more!
Sacred Ground - if you think about it, the game is choked with mass removal... Wrath of God, Damnation, and lesser ones like Infest, Pyroclasm etc... Sacred Ground serves the purpose of keeping my lands alive. Of course you should take note that saprolings buried this way can't be brought back to play because tokens cease to exist the moment they hit the dirt.
So there you have it, (nameless) v1.0! Please be generous with your comments, and maybe you can give me a name for this! =) |
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Thorns
Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 566
Location: Rath
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:31 pm Post subject: Re: No ideas for a name yet, but here it is anyway... |
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| ck3gds wrote: |
Sacred Ground - if you think about it, the game is choked with mass removal... Wrath of God, Damnation, and lesser ones like Infest, Pyroclasm etc... Sacred Ground serves the purpose of keeping my lands alive. Of course you should take note that saprolings buried this way can't be brought back to play because tokens cease to exist the moment they hit the dirt. |
Exactly why Sacred Ground is pointless as soon as you have Life and Limb out. Lands become Saps and Saps become lands in addition to what they were before. |
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Atreyu24
Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 31
Location: New York
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly why Sacred Ground is pointless as soon as you have Life and Limb out. Lands become Saps and Saps become lands in addition to what they were before. |
No, the lands hit the yard, are still lands, and return to play, and, i think the saproling do too, because they don't ever reach the graveyard and when statebased effects are checked, they aren't in the graveyard. But, i'm not a judge so i could be wrong on the saproling tokens, but the lands do return |
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thedarkness
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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State-bases are checked after the WoG resolves, as we know, and this is when Sacred Ground will return lands to play. This means that between the resolution of a Wrath and the resolution of Sacred Ground's effect, there will be a space where the tokens hit the graveyard, thereby dying. Which is what the deck's maker already said.
Correct my if I'm wrong here, but the long and short of it is that the lands that become saprolings return and the saprolings that become lands do not. |
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yavin1
Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| you don't run glare/duals/pains/hiearchs/CotH. Some of these are essentail for your deck. |
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Jacois
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, I thought those Sacred Grounds were in the sideboard at first. Very innovative using them with Life and Limb.
Please cut the Plains count down, 9 is ridiculous. Considering you're taking out the Weathered Wayfarers, you really only need 4 Temple Gardens which is perfect cause they count as forests. Add Hunting Wilds to fetch out the Temple gardens, plus up'ing you forest count for the Life and Limb.
Supply/Demand is pretty terrible. Just add Scatter the Seeds, and Gaea's Anthem instead of the Doubling Season.
Just my 2 cents. Ciao! |
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SOAD
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 225
Location: In my Comp
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| Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Oh men, why ppl keep saying bad stuff about bad decks... beacuse they have something in common.
Whatever.
Whenever a Token Leaves a zone it ceases to exist. |
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Malhavoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2004
Posts: 156
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:32 am Post subject: Re: No ideas for a name yet, but here it is anyway... |
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| ck3gds wrote: |
Sacred Ground - if you think about it, the game is choked with mass removal... Wrath of God, Damnation, and lesser ones like Infest, Pyroclasm etc... Sacred Ground serves the purpose of keeping my lands alive. |
Animated lands destroyed by Infest or Pyroclasm won't come back into play: as you can easily see in the card's faq on magiccards.info, if the creature-land is destroyed by lethal damage or similar things, it's not considered put-into-graveyard by that card, but by a game rule. Only cards like rain of stone, damnation, naturalize (on an artifact land) and so on will trigger sacred ground; combat damage won't trigger it either. |
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ck3gds
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Atreyu24 wrote: | | No, the lands hit the yard, are still lands, and return to play, and, i think the saproling do too, because they don't ever reach the graveyard and when statebased effects are checked, they aren't in the graveyard. But, i'm not a judge so i could be wrong on the saproling tokens, but the lands do return |
1. A land that becomes a Saproling will be returned because it is not a token creature.
2. A Saproling that is also a land will not be returned because SBEs will remove the token from the game as soon as it hits the graveyard, before the Sacred Ground trigger can resolve.
Hope this helps.
| Malhavoc wrote: | | Animated lands destroyed by Infest or Pyroclasm won't come back into play: as you can easily see in the card's faq on magiccards.info, if the creature-land is destroyed by lethal damage or similar things, it's not considered put-into-graveyard by that card, but by a game rule. Only cards like rain of stone, damnation, naturalize (on an artifact land) and so on will trigger sacred ground; combat damage won't trigger it either. |
Oh, is that so? Thanks a lot!
With that I have to give this deck an overhaul. I'll put up v1.1 soon. Thanks everyone! |
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ck3gds
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 8:27 am Post subject: |
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I used my one hour of free time to make several changes to this deck. Here's v1.1.
LANDS
13 Forest
4 Temple Garden
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
CREATURES
4 Ohran Viper
4 Selesnya Guildmage
3 Thelonite Hermit
1 Verdeloth the Ancient
SPELLS
4 Harmonize
4 Supply // Demand
3 Seed Spark
4 Earth Surge
4 Life and Limb
4 Gaea's Anthem
2 Doubling Season
SIDEBOARD*
1 Seed Spark
2 Hunting Wilds
4 Sacred Ground
4 Scion of the Wild
4 Glare of Subdual
*The sideboard contains cards which I'm not sure about including in my deck. Some points to clarify:
1. For Hunting Wilds, the kicker affect only applies to those two Forests I put into play, right?
2. Yes I have confirmed that Sacred Ground will not return lands put into my graveyard due to lethal damage and zero toughness. Thanks for mentioning this.
3. I have Glare of Subdual in the sideboard so that I can switch strategies. Is this a good idea?
4. Any other ways I can improve the sideboard?
To make up for #2 mentioned above, I've included four copies of Gaea's Anthem to pump them up. Coupled with the effects of Thelonite Hermit and Earth Surge, I'm pretty sure that almost nothing in T2 can get rid of them in one shot - except Wrath of God and Damnation of course, for which I have Sacred Ground in the sideboard.
There are some spells which I have chosen to keep, in spite of several people voicing their criticism. I'll do more playtesting and tweak the deck based on the results and your comments.
Once again, please give me your comments for this. Thanks! |
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Jacois
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 238
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Flagstones?! Give me a break dude.... Think about it |
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poopascoopa
Joined: 05 Jan 2005
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, but this deck is absolutely terrible.
It would lose to a random draft deck.
4 Sacred Ground, main? You n00b. |
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sc4rs
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 387
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| Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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As I said in the other thread for the other Life and Limb deck.
WHO THE HELL PLAYS PYROCLASM ANYMORE?!?
There is not a single deck in the format that runs Pyroclasm main or board anymore because neither A: Soltari Priest nor B: The entire deck of MGA die to it. It is near useless in this format and nobody plays it. (Seriously. Go look at the decks that win trials here or did well in other tournaments. Nobody does it. Even Dragonstorm, the deck most likely to be a candidate for having them board, doesn't run it.)
The only relevant mass removal spells in Standard are Wrath of God and Damnation, and Sacred Ground protects your lands from both. It should be main, and poopascoopa is an idiot.
As per the state-based effect token-dying thing, the only time state based effects aren't checked is when a spell is still in the process of resolving. After every spell and effect resolves, state based effects are checked. This is why you can Momentary Blink a token creature and it comes back, but when two different cards affect it (like Wrath and Sacred Ground) it wouldn't. |
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ck3gds
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 234
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| Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| Jacois wrote: |
Flagstones?! Give me a break dude.... Think about it
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I'm sorry but I don't get your point. My rationale for including it was because of cards like Avalanche Riders and Smallpox (which my friends like to throw around), and I can fetch my Temple Garden too. Perhaps you can tell me why there is a problem with Flagstones of Trokair in this deck?
| poopascoopa wrote: |
...
It would lose to a random draft deck.
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I acknowledge that this deck may have a problem with heavy beatdown decks. Are there any ways for me to improve the matchup against them? Perhaps you can give me some ideas, since I'm a n00b?
| sc4rs wrote: |
As I said in the other thread for the other Life and Limb deck.
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The only relevant mass removal spells in Standard are Wrath of God and Damnation, and Sacred Ground protects your lands from both. It should be main...
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I didn't know there was another deck based on Life and Limb, oops. Anyway, sc4rs just about summed up my reasons for including Sacred Ground main in the first place.
So if that's the case, I should include Sacred Ground main ya? Though most likely it won't be a four-of, because an extra one is a dead card in hand. |
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