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Time Vault....


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Legacy (T1.5) Decks

Should Time Vault be banned in Legacy?
Yes
22%
 22%  [ 5 ]
No
77%
 77%  [ 17 ]
Total Votes : 22

Author Message
Vodka_drink



Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1145
Location: Brampton O

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is no way time vault is broken enough to ban...it only used highly in one deck and that deck itself isn't that amazing...time vault doesn't effect the metagame at all..

Vodka
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ant900



Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 2525
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

time vault is a one shot thing, if you mess up your dead with in the next 100000 turns you let your opponet have
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Saucetenuto



Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We'll know after the GP, of course, but I think the Vault is too strong. The difference between it and Donate/Illusions is that Illusions can be disenchanted (remember "lifegain on the stack"?); if you try to Disenchant the Vault, your opponent can easily respond by killing you (assuming that they're good players, and cast Fusillade before dropping the Vault).

I don't think it's brokenly format defining, but compare it to the (banned) Earthcraft/Squirrel Nest engine, and you'll see how much stronger it is.
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Laplie



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saucetenuto wrote:
if you try to Disenchant the Vault, your opponent can easily respond by killing you (assuming that they're good players, and cast Fusillade before dropping the Vault).


Playing Fusillade before playing vault doesn't work. Continuous abilities from spells only affect things in play when the spell resolved. Compare fusillade to a card like Infest. So the vault has to be in play when they cast Fusillade, which means you respond to Fusillade being cast by disenchanting the vault.

Quote:
418.3b Continuous effects from spells, activated abilities, and triggered abilities that modify the characteristics or change the controller of one or more objects don’t affect objects that weren’t affected when the continuous effect began


Knowing the rules = t3ch.
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Dragon_Lady



Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You don't necessarily need the Fusillade to win, either...I played vs a guy in a Legacy tournament that did a Stasis- like combo involving a Smokestack with one counter, a Tangle Wire set to 4, and a Time Vault....when I had 3 lands. Sad NOT fun at all.
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MrCowFart



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

time vault + stasis + tangle wire = gg
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give the deck a chance to shine before you go banning it:)
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Laplie



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Give the deck a chance to shine before you go banning it:)


Desire was restricted in T1 and banned in 1.5 before it was even tourney legal.

Still, vault doesn't need to be banned
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MrCowFart



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 381

PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thjey could errata time vault so it's ability could only be used once a turn...

They would be better off banning it. It has way too much errata already and will probably be the cause of many a judge call. Simply with ptq's and lower level tournaments in mind it should be banned.
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VacancyMan



Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 309

PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys may remember a good (irl) friend of mine, Sex_Monkey, who broke Time Vault, much before Flame Fusillade was released, using Lodestone Myr. Of course, he did so in Type 1, with Trinisphere not yet restricted...

Nevertheless, Time Vault is an extremely powerful card in its ability to untap an unlimited number times in a single phase, as well as infinitely avoid taking turns. Certain cards can break this ability, the most infamous of late being Flame Fusillade. However, it is neither an undisruptible nor a dominant combo. The best deck in Legacy continues to be Goblins. The greatest factor that would push for the banning of Time Vault in Legacy is definitely its price. If Time Vault becomes a combo staple in 1.5, then the metagame will contradict everything 1.5 was supposed to stand for: A Vintage-like format sans the exorbitant price of deckbuilding. Such a situation is what will cause the banning of Time Vault, not the relatively fair combo itself.
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snoopster



Joined: 04 Dec 2004
Posts: 758
Location: nj

PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vacancy Man, your avatar is from Pieter Brueghel's The Triumph of Death (nice choice Cool ).

About the topic, no Time Vault decks made the top 8 at GP Philly, so I think that the card is far from ban-worthy.
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gumonshoe



Joined: 15 Sep 2005
Posts: 433

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laplie wrote:

Desire was restricted in T1 and banned in 1.5 before it was even tourney legal.

come one... that was an easy desision though...
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RThomas
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 389

PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a positive note, Rich Shay and Ray Tautic made the top 32 with a Stasis build of Flame Vault. Rich's take on the deck can be found here.

Quote:
Behold, the Quad Glacier:

2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Volcanic Island
10 Island
2 Mountain

3 Chrome Mox
3 Intuition
3 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Time Vault
3 Flame Fusillade
4 Stasis
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Deep Analysis
3 Impulse

SB: 1 Flame Fusillade
SB: 1 Deep Analysis
SB: 1 Reconstruction
SB: 3 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Meltdown
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Echoing Ruin
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