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Jund Control



 
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darkhero



Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:30 am    Post subject: Jund Control Reply with quote

So I'm playing MTG again after like, 7 years, and back then I was never very good or even competitive minded player but for about 2 years after that I was a decent Yugioh competitive player... anyway need some help and advice to get this deck up to par, through it together mostly by reading forums on the archtype, looking at others peoples list and advice and throwing in what I liked the best.

// Lands
4 [RTR] Overgrown Tomb
4 [M11] Rootbound Crag
4 [RTR] Blood Crypt
4 [ISD] Woodland Cemetery
2 [ISD] Kessig Wolf Run
6 [ON] Forest (3)

// Creatures
4 [M13] Vampire Nighthawk
3 [ISD] Olivia Voldaren
4 [M13] Thragtusk
4 [DKA] Huntmaster of the Fells/Ravager of the Fells

// Spells
4 [M13] Farseek
4 [AVR] Pillar of Flame
2 [RTR] Rakdos Keyrune
3 [RTR] Mizzium Mortars
2 [RTR] Rakdos's Return
2 [RTR] Dreadbore
1 [ISD] Garruk Relentless/Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
3 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RTR] Mizzium Mortars
SB: 2 [AVR] Appetite for Brains
SB: 2 [M13] Duress
SB: 2 [ISD] Sever the Bloodline
SB: 2 [M13] Knight of Infamy
SB: 2 [M13] Naturalize
SB: 2 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 [RTR] Slaughter Games

I have no experience Sideboarding with MTG really so extra help with that might be needed. Thanks in Advance (unless no one helps me, ill be so upset >:\)
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GreenBear



Joined: 27 Jul 2010
Posts: 901

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks pretty good to me, with sb i would certainly include tormods crypt or graffdiggers cage for reanimator.
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xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enemy number one as of now is Bant Control, followed closely by American Control. While Jund can grind out the aggressive zombie decks (as long as you can survive until you stabilize with Thragtusk, Olivia and friends), early midrange builds of jund had poor control matchups.

That being said, planeswalkers become very important. An unanswered Liliana can tear a control deck's hand apart, her -2 can even kill a Lotleth troll. Vsraka's -3 answers their planewalkers and her ultimate is an alternate win-con against a mostly creatureless deck (especially when paired with Kessig Wolf Run). Garruk is removal against aggro and provides a constant stream of threats and even a way to tutor up creatures on occasion.

Your planeswalkers become even better against the current control decks because they can't play dreadbore. With your all you 2-for-1 creatures they'll have a tough time getting through to your planeswalkers.

As such, a more 'heavy' Jund seems more suited for the meta. You can't run infinite planeswalkers because they aren't always the greatest against aggro decks, but a healthy amount between your maindeck and your sideboard seems good.

Speaking of which, dreadbore in the side (or even main, it still hits creatures) is another card you could consider as an out to a Jace or a Tamiyo.

Rakdos' Return is great against them as well. You target them and redirect the damage to a planeswalker, killing their buddy and making them discard. A control deck without a hand is like a floundering fish, though they certainly can still topdeck.

A control player I was against kept a slow hand because he had a Jace, I hit it with a turn one appetite for brains, and before he made another relevant play I hit his whole hand with Return and killed his Tamiyo. He then drew, in order: Jace, detention sphere, entreat for four. Thankfully I had the mortars to clear his board and win, but 9/10 I just lose to his draws.

Which brings up appetite for brains as another sb card. It hits their relvant plays, i.e. Jace, tamiyo, hardcast Terminus, and a few others I'm probably forgetting. Jace is your main target, because of the insane value they get out of him. Remember that they always get the card they want, no matter how you split the piles. And it hits the threats from other midrange decks, something which duress doesn't do. I'm not saying appetite is a better card, I'm not sure I like it personally, but on paper it seems to hit what you care about better than duress.

Your list basically does everything jund wants to do, it seems fine. The double black of nighthawk seems restrictive, I wouldn't run four. Lists I've seen with it run around two. You have lots of removal, and keyrune fulfills Jund's need for manlands to win after the game is brought down to topdecks, which is ideally your goal. As well as accelerating. Your split for planeswalkers might want to include a Vsraka, I've seen lists w/ two Garruk and two Vsraka main and Liliana's in the side, but that doesn't mean that's what is "correct." Maybe more planeswalkers is better, because control decks as of now really don't have good answers for them (besides grixis which can play dreadbore).

Deathrite Shaman is great to side in against reanimator, maybe more of them to guarantee you have your biggest out to their strategy. It's awkward when they bin an angel of serenity and a u/b rites turn one and you follow up with shaman. As are grafdiggers cage or tormods crypt since there's no instant speed reanimator tricks.

Slaughter games is a card I haven't seen in many sideboards, but I liked to have sb memoricides in my Esper Planeswalkers deck pre-rotation because it was a good hose against the control mirror and wolf run. Again, it's awkward when you play memoricide naming Primetime and you hit two in hand and strip them of their main win-con.

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/standard_deck_hq.asp is a site I particularly like for decklists, they show how many times a particular archetype placed in important tournaments as well as showing tournament reports, and of course the decklists themselves. The results from many states tournaments just went up, if you want a more precise answer as to what would be a good suggestion perhaps you could browse the results to see what people are playing.

Keep in mind that magic-league's metagame is usually far different from real life.

TL;DR: Your list is good, I personally wouldn't change much.


Last edited by xHourglass on Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:09 pm; edited 5 times in total
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darkhero



Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow thanks for all the advice, I tested the deck some and your right control decks are much harder to deal with, ,mostly because of Tamiyo in all honesty, they kept my creautes out of the game and when I finally got one she can just lock it down, and once she ultimates thats pretty much game. I havent considered Vraska much but I am definitely throwing them in since they can kill those walkers + maining a 3rd dreadbore, Im noticing most the top builds maining a couple shamans so im going to try that too. Ive actually had trouble with all the discard, they even seem to recover pretty well from Rakdos, thanks to toping stuff like Supreme Verdict and Sphinxes Revealation. all in all they are drawing way more than I am so I am moving the liliannas out for Vraska for now, I feel like the discard is really hurting me sometimes even more than them if they recover by drawing cards, since they choose what to discard... taking out the 2 duress in sb to run a playset of Appetite for Brains, which is extremely useful in pletny of match-ups. and by the way, Slaughter Games is AMAZING in my opionion, very very useful in the side.

Here's the list with Vraskas and couple fixes.


// Lands
4 [RTR] Overgrown Tomb
4 [M11] Rootbound Crag
4 [RTR] Blood Crypt
4 [ISD] Woodland Cemetery
2 [ISD] Kessig Wolf Run
6 [ON] Forest (3)

// Creatures
3 [M13] Vampire Nighthawk
2 [ISD] Olivia Voldaren
4 [M13] Thragtusk
4 [DKA] Huntmaster of the Fells/Ravager of the Fells
2 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman

// Spells
4 [M13] Farseek
3 [AVR] Pillar of Flame
2 [RTR] Mizzium Mortars
2 [RTR] Rakdos's Return
3 [RTR] Dreadbore
1 [ISD] Garruk Relentless/Garruk, the Veil-Cursed
2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
2 [RTR] Rakdos Keyrune
2 [RTR] Vraska the Unseen

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [AVR] Pillar of Flame
SB: 2 [RTR] Mizzium Mortars
SB: 1 [RTR] Dreadbore
SB: 4 [AVR] Appetite for Brains
SB: 2 [ISD] Sever the Bloodline
SB: 2 [M13] Knight of Infamy
SB: 1 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 [RTR] Slaughter Games

My only thing is I think I do want to fit the Lilli's back in against decks running Lotleth Troll or even Wolfir Avenger's, regeneration is kind of a pain to deal with.
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xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been hooked on legacy lately so I haven't played a whole lot of standard, I still keep up with it though. Once I'm done my midterms I'll get back into it, I just don't have the time to devote to tuning and testing.

Control is always going to play those think twice's and revelations to keep their hand full. That's just what control does. By rakdos'ing them, or liliana'ing them, they just have that many fewer options. Which is never bad, though it's not an absolute hoser with cards like Jace and Revelation.

I don't always durdle around, but when I do, I play this list.

Jund Midrange by Nicholas Heal - SCG Providence
// Lands
4 [RAV] Blood Crypt
4 [M10] Dragonskull Summit
2 [ISD] Kessig Wolf Run
1 [UNH] Mountain
4 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
4 [M10] Rootbound Crag
1 [UNH] Swamp
4 [ISD] Woodland Cemetery

// Creatures
2 [ISD] Olivia Voldaren
4 [M13] Thragtusk
1 [AVR] Zealous Conscripts
4 [DKA] Huntmaster of the Fells/Ravager of the Fells

// Spells
4 [RTR] Dreadbore
4 [RAV] Farseek
3 [RTR] Mizzium Mortars
3 [AVR] Pillar of Flame
4 [DKA] Tragic Slip
3 [RTR] Underworld Connections
2 [RTR] Vraska the Unseen
2 [ISD] Garruk Relentless

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [AVR] Zealous Conscripts
SB: 3 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 [7E] Duress
SB: 3 [DKA] Falkenrath Aristocrat
SB: 2 [RTR] Golgari Charm
SB: 2 [ISD] Liliana of the Veil
SB: 2 [RTR] Slaughter Games

I'm not sure if I miss the Rakdos's Return or not. More golgari charms may be needed if tokens become a thing after they took down the open.

It's basically preboarded against midrange and control, which given on the meta right now has been successful for me. Like GerryT and hero of bladehold in delver decks. Delver lost to green aggro decks, so he just maindecked his best card against them. Or knight of infamy in his sb for zombies. I'm already winning against aggro, so I'll just focus on optimizing my bad matchups. As the meta solidifies I can more finely tune.

People will throw stuff against the wall for a while to see what sticks, and the 'best decks' may take a while to develop. Delver didn't even exist for a long time until Todd Anderson gave it a try, and even his first list that placed was nowhere close to the finely-tuned machine called delver that we came to love and hate.

One of my best friends, Andrew Huska, piloted a burning vengeance control deck to second place in States this time last year. Burning vengeance? Really? Random decks will be around for a while, so no sense in fretting too much over your list. It'll be changing constantly until the meta calms down.
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darkhero



Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like your list, especially the Underworld connections, most lists I see play just 1 or just side 1, but I hoenstly feel Like I need draw power, options being Underworld Connection, Sign in Blood, or Garruk, Primal Hunter
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xHourglass



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some list run primal hunter in the states reports, but I don't like it tbh. Just at a glance obviously, I just don't see it working well. Underworld connection main was weird I thought, at first, but playing with it seems to be awesome. A phyrexian arena effect keep me ahead after I wreck both our hand after trading card for card w/ them or dropping rakdos's return.

Sign in blood also has the restrictive mana cost, but late game you'd have no problem casting it. Arena 2.0 is more recurable, sign in blood nets you only one card. By time you cast arena, the mana cost is largely irrelevant and thus cantrips the first turn, turn two it's tied with sign, turn three you're ahead. You play approximately infinite life-gaining creatures, so the life loss is not huge. And unlike arena, you can just turn it off at will.
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nightmood



Joined: 19 Aug 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

true story Very Happy
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