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Need constructive opinions about M12 Sealed decks



 
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nopenopenope



Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Need constructive opinions about M12 Sealed decks Reply with quote

Before looking into my sideboard and telling me I did wrong because you see a good card in it, look at the whole list and tell mewhat you would do instead.

Here is 3 list I made in m-l's tourneys.

#1
// NAME: RW Sealed Deck
// Lands
10 [M12] Plains (1)
7 [M12] Mountain (1)
// Creatures
1 [M12] Archon of Justice
1 [M12] Armored Warhorse
1 [M12] Assault Griffin
1 [M12] Auramancer
1 [M12] Benalish Veteran
2 [M12] Blood Ogre
1 [M12] Bonebreaker Giant
1 [M12] Crimson Mage
1 [M12] Flameblast Dragon
2 [M12] Gideon's Lawkeeper
1 [M12] Peregrine Griffin
1 [M12] Serra Angel
1 [M12] Siege Mastodon

// Spells
1 [M12] Fireball
1 [M12] Fling
1 [M12] Guardians' Pledge
1 [M12] Incinerate
2 [M12] Pacifism
1 [M12] Shock
1 [M12] Spirit Mantle

// Sideboard
SB: 9 [M12] Plains (1)
SB: 14 [M12] Mountain (1)
SB: 2 [M12] Acidic Slime
SB: 1 [M12] AEther Adept
SB: 2 [M12] Angel's Mercy
SB: 1 [M12] Arachnus Web
SB: 1 [M12] Autumn's Veil
SB: 1 [M12] Azure Mage
SB: 1 [M12] Belltower Sphinx
SB: 1 [M12] Bloodrage Vampire
SB: 3 [M12] Cancel
SB: 1 [M12] Child of Night
SB: 1 [M12] Crown of Empires
SB: 3 [M12] Dark Favor
SB: 1 [M12] Demon's Horn
SB: 1 [M12] Devouring Swarm
SB: 1 [M12] Diabolic Tutor
SB: 1 [M12] Disentomb
SB: 2 [M12] Divination
SB: 1 [M12] Doom Blade
SB: 1 [M12] Dragon's Claw
SB: 1 [M12] Duskhunter Bat
SB: 1 [M12] Elvish Archdruid
SB: 1 [M12] Firebreathing
SB: 1 [M12] Flashfreeze
SB: 1 [M12] Flight
SB: 19 [M12] Forest (1)
SB: 1 [M12] Giant Spider
SB: 1 [M12] Goblin War Paint
SB: 1 [M12] Griffin Sentinel
SB: 19 [M12] Island (1)
SB: 2 [M12] Lifelink
SB: 1 [M12] Llanowar Elves
SB: 1 [M12] Mana Leak
SB: 1 [M12] Master Thief
SB: 2 [M12] Merfolk Looter
SB: 1 [M12] Mind Rot
SB: 1 [M12] Monomania
SB: 1 [M12] Negate
SB: 1 [M12] Phantasmal Dragon
SB: 1 [M12] Plummet
SB: 1 [M12] Ponder
SB: 1 [M12] Pride Guardian
SB: 1 [M12] Reassembling Skeleton
SB: 1 [M12] Reclaim
SB: 1 [M12] Scrambleverse
SB: 1 [M12] Skywinder Drake
SB: 1 [M12] Smallpox
SB: 1 [M12] Sorin's Thirst
SB: 1 [M12] Stonehorn Dignitary
SB: 1 [M12] Sundial of the Infinite
SB: 1 [M12] Titanic Growth
SB: 2 [M12] Tormented Soul
SB: 2 [M12] Wall of Torches
SB: 18 [M12] Swamp (1)

Did 2-0
After a discussion with, I don't remember who, we concluded that this list needed at least 18 lands. So
-1 Spirit mantle
-1 Fling
+1 Mountain
+1 Griffin Sentinel
Any other suggestions?

#2
// NAME: RG Sealed Deck
// Lands
9 [M12] Forest (1)
8 [M12] Mountain (1)
// Creatures
1 [M12] Birds of Paradise
1 [M12] Blood Ogre
1 [M12] Carnage Wurm
1 [M12] Cudgel Troll
1 [M12] Garruk's Companion
1 [M12] Giant Spider
1 [M12] Goblin Fireslinger
1 [M12] Greater Basilisk
1 [M12] Llanowar Elves
1 [M12] Manic Vandal
1 [M12] Primeval Titan
1 [M12] Stormblood Berserker
1 [M12] Vastwood Gorger

// Spells
1 [M12] Act of Treason
2 [M12] Chandra's Outrage
2 [M12] Fireball
1 [M12] Incinerate
1 [M12] Manalith
1 [M12] Plummet
1 [M12] Reclaim
1 [M12] Rites of Flourishing

// Sideboard
SB: 10 [M12] Forest (1)
SB: 11 [M12] Mountain (1)
SB: 1 [M12] Vastwood Gorger
SB: 2 [M12] Amphin Cutthroat
SB: 2 [M12] Armored Warhorse
SB: 1 [M12] Auramancer
SB: 1 [M12] Autumn's Veil
SB: 1 [M12] Benalish Veteran
SB: 1 [M12] Bloodrage Vampire
SB: 1 [M12] Brindle Boar
SB: 2 [M12] Buried Ruin
SB: 1 [M12] Combust
SB: 1 [M12] Consume Spirit
SB: 1 [M12] Coral Merfolk
SB: 1 [M12] Dark Favor
SB: 1 [M12] Diabolic Tutor
SB: 1 [M12] Disentomb
SB: 1 [M12] Divination
SB: 2 [M12] Drifting Shade
SB: 2 [M12] Duskhunter Bat
SB: 1 [M12] Fling
SB: 1 [M12] Gideon's Avenger
SB: 3 [M12] Gideon's Lawkeeper
SB: 1 [M12] Goblin Piker
SB: 1 [M12] Goblin Tunneler
SB: 1 [M12] Gravedigger
SB: 1 [M12] Greatsword
SB: 1 [M12] Guardians' Pledge
SB: 1 [M12] Hunter's Insight
SB: 1 [M12] Jace's Archivist
SB: 1 [M12] Jace's Erasure
SB: 1 [M12] Kraken's Eye
SB: 1 [M12] Lava Axe
SB: 2 [M12] Lightning Elemental
SB: 1 [M12] Lure
SB: 1 [M12] Mighty Leap
SB: 2 [M12] Mind Rot
SB: 1 [M12] Naturalize
SB: 1 [M12] Phantasmal Bear
SB: 1 [M12] Phantasmal Dragon
SB: 19 [M12] Plains (1)
SB: 1 [M12] Ponder
SB: 1 [M12] Roc Egg
SB: 1 [M12] Runeclaw Bear
SB: 1 [M12] Scrambleverse
SB: 1 [M12] Siege Mastodon
SB: 2 [M12] Skywinder Drake
SB: 1 [M12] Spirit Mantle
SB: 1 [M12] Stonehorn Dignitary
SB: 21 [M12] Swamp (1)
SB: 1 [M12] Taste of Blood
SB: 1 [M12] Tormented Soul
SB: 1 [M12] Unsummon
SB: 1 [M12] Wall of Torches
SB: 1 [M12] Wring Flesh
SB: 18 [M12] Island (1)

Unfortunatly I didn't have time to play this one, I go a bye round 1 and had to leave after that.

Any suggestions?

#3
// NAME: RG Sealed Deck
// Lands
7 [M12] Forest (1)
10 [M12] Mountain (1)

// Creatures
2 [M12] Adaptive Automaton
1 [M12] Blood Ogre
1 [M12] Carnage Wurm
1 [M12] Crimson Mage
1 [M12] Cudgel Troll
2 [M12] Fiery Hellhound
1 [M12] Giant Spider
1 [M12] Gorehorn Minotaurs
1 [M12] Greater Basilisk
2 [M12] Jade Mage
1 [M12] Volcanic Dragon

// Spells
1 [M12] Arachnus Web
3 [M12] Chandra's Outrage
3 [M12] Incinerate
1 [M12] Plummet
1 [M12] Rampant Growth

// Sideboard
SB: 13 [M12] Forest (1)
SB: 9 [M12] Mountain (1)
SB: 1 [M12] Act of Treason
SB: 2 [M12] Alluring Siren
SB: 1 [M12] Arbalest Elite
SB: 1 [M12] Azure Mage
SB: 1 [M12] Bloodrage Vampire
SB: 1 [M12] Cancel
SB: 1 [M12] Child of Night
SB: 1 [M12] Combust
SB: 1 [M12] Dark Favor
SB: 1 [M12] Day of Judgment
SB: 1 [M12] Deathmark
SB: 1 [M12] Demystify
SB: 1 [M12] Disentomb
SB: 1 [M12] Divination
SB: 1 [M12] Doom Blade
SB: 1 [M12] Duskhunter Bat
SB: 1 [M12] Firebreathing
SB: 1 [M12] Fling
SB: 2 [M12] Fog
SB: 1 [M12] Gladecover Scout
SB: 2 [M12] Goblin War Paint
SB: 1 [M12] Harbor Serpent
SB: 1 [M12] Hideous Visage
SB: 1 [M12] Jace's Erasure
SB: 1 [M12] Lava Axe
SB: 1 [M12] Lifelink
SB: 1 [M12] Lightning Elemental
SB: 2 [M12] Manalith
SB: 2 [M12] Merfolk Looter
SB: 1 [M12] Merfolk Mesmerist
SB: 1 [M12] Mind Rot
SB: 1 [M12] Monomania
SB: 1 [M12] Phantasmal Bear
SB: 19 [M12] Plains (1)
SB: 1 [M12] Reassembling Skeleton
SB: 1 [M12] Reclaim
SB: 2 [M12] Runeclaw Bear
SB: 1 [M12] Sengir Vampire
SB: 1 [M12] Siege Mastodon
SB: 1 [M12] Slaughter Cry
SB: 1 [M12] Smallpox
SB: 1 [M12] Sorin's Thirst
SB: 1 [M12] Sorin's Vengeance
SB: 1 [M12] Stormfront Pegasus
SB: 1 [M12] Sutured Ghoul
SB: 20 [M12] Swamp (1)
SB: 1 [M12] Tectonic Rift
SB: 1 [M12] Thran Golem
SB: 1 [M12] Timely Reinforcements
SB: 2 [M12] Titanic Growth
SB: 2 [M12] Tormented Soul
SB: 1 [M12] Trollhide
SB: 1 [M12] Unsummon
SB: 1 [M12] Warpath Ghoul
SB: 1 [M12] Zombie Goliath
SB: 18 [M12] Island (1)

When I saw all the powerful removals in red I had no other choice, but the second color was harder to dertermine. I think 2x Jade mage is very powerful and specialy with 2x Adaptive Automaton.
Any suggestions?



There is a GP at Montréal in 2 weeks and I think I am not very good at sealed. So I need your help.

Thanks
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nopenopenope



Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went 3-1 with the 3th. i lost to hexproof guys...
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struikje



Joined: 11 Mar 2011
Posts: 108

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just type what I think, I do not claim being any good at sealed though^^

deck 1: I don't think guardians pledge is all that great in your deck, I don't think you have enough white critters to pull it off. crown of empires is not a bad card, I'd play it over the pledge/fling.

deck 2: I am no fan of green, but the titan kinda forced you into it. I'm no fan of rites of flourishing, as it gives your opponent just as much advantage. Manalith seems kinda weird as you arllready have birds, and llanowar elf to ramp into 2 six and 1 seven cost spell (granted the 2 fireballs). I don't ever see a reason to play reclaim either^^

The third deck seems nice, with double jade mage and lots of burn. You do have some nice white cards in sideboard.

Goodluck at the grandprix^^
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ChrRome



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also do not claim to be great at sealed, but here are my thoughts:

I disagree that the titan forces you into green. Primeval Titan is basically just a random 6/6 Trampler that thins your deck a bit.
You might have a solid RB Aggressive deck there. Here are changes I would consider:

- All Green Stuff and Manalith
-9 Forest
-1 Mountain

+1 bloodrage vampire
+1 consume spirit
+1 dark favor
+1-2 Drifting Shade
+2 Duskhunter Bat
+1 Fling
+1 Goblin Piker
+1 Goblin Tunneler
+1 Gravedigger
+1 Lava Axe
+1 Tormented Soul
+1 Wring Flesh
+1 Lightning Elemental
+9 Swamp

The deck should be quite fast and you have a decent amount of bloodthirsters and ways to turn them on. You also have a solid amount of removal to clear the way for your guys.

Lava Axe and Fling are there to provide a bit of reach if the game goes long.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deck 1: Auramancer is doing very little for you. Especially if you decided to cut Spirit Mantle(which you should never do in limited), he is just a 2/2 for 3. Benalish Veteran is only slightly better. I saw some very solid blue and black in your sideboard - I would have taken a 3rd color if I were you. Also, the idea of running 18 lands in that deck is ludicrous - the only time you would do it is if you had a deck chock full of 6 and 7 drops.

Deck 2: You ran a lot of sub-par cards in this deck. Rites of Flourishing stands out as a card which sounds cool but does not give you any advantage. Greater Basilisk and Vastwood Gorger are too expensive for what they give while solid but unremarkable cards like Brindle Boar and Fling sat in your sideboard. Finally, Plummet is a sideboard card, but you always want Naturalize in M12 limited.

Deck 3: Adaptive Automoton is a great card for constructed - not so much for limited. You don't have enough tribal support for them to be playable in this deck. Again, I think Greater Basilisk and Plummet should be replaced with more reliable/powerful cards - in this case, I would suggest you put in 1 Thran Golem, 1 Trollhide, 1 Titanic Growth, 1 Act of Treason.

Overall, I think you need practice valuing cards - you are pretty good at judging color strength, but you are making the wrong cuts.
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nopenopenope



Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 164

PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for their comments!

I think the weirdest deck I did there is the 2nd.. The main idea behind rite flourishing was to take advantages of my fireballs. I added reclaim because of that. I didn't have the chance to test this strategy, but yes.. It seems a bit fancy.

I don't really like the idea of putting black in... Since I dislike almost all those cards. Maybe I am wrong.

xJudicatorx
You are right about the Automoton. Since I played the deck, it only had once good interaction with the saprolings. I think you have some very good ideas, but some are discutable. You actually suggest me to remove 4 creatures to add 3 spells and 1 creature. It makes a total of 12 spells and 11 Creatures. Are you sure about that? If my opponent get few removals in the same game, I am dead for sure since I don't have really good bombs. Maybe we should mix our ideas. I could remove the plumet and the basilik to add Trollhide and Golem. I would keep the automaton only because they are creatures. 3 for 2/2 and boost at least one of my other creatures isn't that bad anyway.

Also, my idea behind the 18th lands in deck #1 isn't only because of the high cmc, but also because of the 2xLawkeeper and crown of empires. Considering those cards, do you still think it is a bad idea?
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maps



Joined: 04 Apr 2010
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DECK 1: You should always be playing the Griffin Sentinel. Cut the fling for it. I would also play the Crown of Empires. It's very good in sealed. I would cut the Auramancer for it (You're maintaining the same level of white creatures with Sentinel). Perhaps against a Green deck you could board in Auramancer, especially if you see Naturalize game 1.

DECK 2: Cut Rites of Flourishing, Manalith, Reclaim and Manic Vandal. You don't want to be playing 20 mana sources. Add Grizzly Bears, which should be better than Manic Vandal the majority of the time, Goblin Piker, to keep your curve down and enable bloodthirst, Hunter's Insight, which is good in your deck because of the large creatures. The last card I would add is Greatsword. It makes cards like Birds, Fireslinger, Elves, and the two 2-drops I am suggesting much better late game, as well as improving Insight.

Deck 3: I would absolutely keep the Automatons in this deck. Not only are they insane with the 2 Jade Mages, but they are even good together, and sometimes just naming something like Human can go a long way. In that Red/Green deck, I'd absolutely run Bears and Trollhides. Perhaps Red/Black is best, but I am too tired to go through that.
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xJudicatorx



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 696

PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

17 lands is definitely enough - in fact, the pro advice to run 17 is more of a "just in case" thing. It's better to have too much mana and be able to play any spell you draw than to have too little and have a hand full of dead cards. In most cases, 15 lands is plenty for a 40 card deck, but people up it to 17 in order to make sure they never get mana screwed. Also, I didn't notice the Crown of Empires - you should cut it.

As for having more spells than creatures, in limited I feel that it is better to play your strongest card regardless of whether it is a creature or a spell. In M12 limited particularly, the game often degenerates into a removal war where the first person to stick a creature and be able to defend it (regeneration, hexproof, pump, etc.) ends up winning.
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