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I want to improve my new deck



 
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:43 am    Post subject: I want to improve my new deck Reply with quote

Remember when I was talking about The Rock thread if it was possible or not ?

Well, based on this idea, I made a new deck. It's kind of The Rock for the creatures and maybe the removal but I mixed it up with ramp.

So I accelerate my mana to put big creatures (but I didn't want to do Eldrazi style) -> I was thinking to myself if I play big nice creature that costs less than the eldrazi, it could be more efficiant (you know, like playing Wurmcoil Engine, Steel Hellkite and stuff),

so with a bit of playtesting, I came up with this :


Lands//

14 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
8 Swamp


Creatures//

4x Birds of Paradise (mana acceleration)
4x Lotus Cobra (same thing)
4x Phyrexian Rager (Chump block + drawing a card, I need this in this deck)
2x Primordial Hydra
2x Wurmcoil Engine
3x Steel Hellkite

Spells//

4x Explore (mana accel + drawing a card)
4x Doom Blade (kill stuff)
3x Black Sun's Zenith (kill more stuff)
2x Hunter's Inisight (still deciding if I want this card, but it makes me draw... sometimes)
2x Garruk Primal Hunter (still in playtest, looks good on paper in this deck)

Sideboard :

not really need a sideboard, you have to adjust to your metagame


What I'm struggling with :

I hesitate between taking Primordial or Protean Hydra
I hesitate with 2 o 3 copies of them as for Wurmoil and Hellkite.

So, help me with this deck in mind.

Maybe you'll think this deck sucks, but try it before commenting this, it's better than you think.
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Thelemys



Joined: 24 Apr 2008
Posts: 910

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black sun + bird/cobra/rager = bad idea
you will kill yourself, explore and land tutor works with back sun...

-2 swamps
-2 forest
+4 tectonic edge

you NEED a sb
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thelemys wrote:
Black sun + bird/cobra/rager = bad idea
you will kill yourself, explore and land tutor works with back sun...

-2 swamps
-2 forest
+4 tectonic edge

you NEED a sb



You have to know when to play black sun.

I know a need a sideboard, it's just that you have to adjust it to YOUR metagame so I don't need to post my sideboard.

Any other CONSTRUCTIVE criticism ? and not just some random -2 of that and +2 of that
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ChrRome



Joined: 08 Mar 2009
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is literally impossible for this deck to beat Valakut.
Also, Steel Hellkite should be Grave Titan or something (The Rock is a value deck, and a Hellkite dying without doing anything isn't value).
Hunter's Insight seems really sketchy.
Finally, this deck also seems like it will have a hard time vs RDW.

Also, regarding my agreeing that the Tectonic Edge should be there, it is actually possible it shouldn't because of the mana fixing available for G/B. Something like 3 Tec Edge, and 2 Terramorphics or something might be worth a try to improve your game vs Control and Valakut.


Last edited by ChrRome on Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ChrRome wrote:
It is literally impossible for this deck to beat Valakut.
Also, Steel Hellkite should be Grave Titan or something.
Hunter's Insight seems really sketchy.
Finally, this deck also seems like it will have a hard time vs RDW.

Also, I don't see how the person who posted above you wasn't giving constructive criticism. Clearly Tectonic Edge should be in there, and he made a valid point with the Black Sun's Zenith.



Thank you for almost being pointless.

it's not constructive when he is just saying : " add this or this" and not explaining why. It's in the rules forum to explain why a card is there when I put it in the deck. If you want me to put this card or remove it you also have to explain why, it'S obvious.

When I have to combine to post to see why someone said this or this, there is a problem.

Almost nobody plays Valakut anyways ( I think I faced it ONCE in all my match ups I did) -> well it's on mws sever, so w/e I can take this with a grain of salt. The most popular deck I see is Tempered Steel and I have difficulties but it's no impossible to win.

Even if he had a valid point I think I have one too when I say " you have to know when to play it'".

As for the Steel Hellkite and Titan, yeah you're right.
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FiReBLT



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magx wrote:
ChrRome wrote:
It is literally impossible for this deck to beat Valakut.
Also, Steel Hellkite should be Grave Titan or something.
Hunter's Insight seems really sketchy.
Finally, this deck also seems like it will have a hard time vs RDW.

Also, I don't see how the person who posted above you wasn't giving constructive criticism. Clearly Tectonic Edge should be in there, and he made a valid point with the Black Sun's Zenith.



Thank you for almost being pointless.

it's not constructive when he is just saying : " add this or this" and not explaining why. It's in the rules forum to explain why a card is there when I put it in the deck. If you want me to put this card or remove it you also have to explain why, it'S obvious.

When I have to combine to post to see why someone said this or this, there is a problem.

Almost nobody plays Valakut anyways ( I think I faced it ONCE in all my match ups I did) -> well it's on mws sever, so w/e I can take this with a grain of salt. The most popular deck I see is Tempered Steel and I have difficulties but it's no impossible to win.

Even if he had a valid point I think I have one too when I say " you have to know when to play it'".

As for the Steel Hellkite and Titan, yeah you're right.


I don't mean to criticise, but when you post a decklist up and ask for comments, you should expect people to point out the deck's weakest matchups, and how they would tweak the deck.
Although you can argue that Black Sun's Zenith can be played at a certain 'time', the comments on the antisynergy of mana dorks and wrath effects still stands - is there a really good reason that you want the dorks on the field? If there is, you should state that instead of bashing the people trying to help you. Dismissing the feedback you get as 'random' or 'pointless' is not doing yourself any favours, and will just make other people less willing to try to comment.
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FiReBLT wrote:
Magx wrote:
ChrRome wrote:
It is literally impossible for this deck to beat Valakut.
Also, Steel Hellkite should be Grave Titan or something.
Hunter's Insight seems really sketchy.
Finally, this deck also seems like it will have a hard time vs RDW.

Also, I don't see how the person who posted above you wasn't giving constructive criticism. Clearly Tectonic Edge should be in there, and he made a valid point with the Black Sun's Zenith.



Thank you for almost being pointless.

it's not constructive when he is just saying : " add this or this" and not explaining why. It's in the rules forum to explain why a card is there when I put it in the deck. If you want me to put this card or remove it you also have to explain why, it'S obvious.

When I have to combine to post to see why someone said this or this, there is a problem.

Almost nobody plays Valakut anyways ( I think I faced it ONCE in all my match ups I did) -> well it's on mws sever, so w/e I can take this with a grain of salt. The most popular deck I see is Tempered Steel and I have difficulties but it's no impossible to win.

Even if he had a valid point I think I have one too when I say " you have to know when to play it'".

As for the Steel Hellkite and Titan, yeah you're right.


I don't mean to criticise, but when you post a decklist up and ask for comments, you should expect people to point out the deck's weakest matchups, and how they would tweak the deck.
Although you can argue that Black Sun's Zenith can be played at a certain 'time', the comments on the antisynergy of mana dorks and wrath effects still stands - is there a really good reason that you want the dorks on the field? If there is, you should state that instead of bashing the people trying to help you. Dismissing the feedback you get as 'random' or 'pointless' is not doing yourself any favours, and will just make other people less willing to try to comment.


I could go for the "then they just have to do no comment then", but I won't do that.

I don't have any problems with people telling me what is the weak point/s of my deck.

The problem is HOW they do it.

Like I said, for the third time : when someone says : "add this and this" and there is no explanation when I have to do one, I won't take the argument.

Then, if I feel there arguments are pointless, I have the right to think so and say it then. Not my fault if people can't argue. There is exception to this (ie : Grave Titan vs Hellkite for example) when it is too obvious. But most of the time, it isn't, I don't know what they think.

So insteand of

" -2 swamps,
-2 forests,
+4 tectonic edge"

it shoud be somethin like

" -2 swamps, -2 forests (because I think you have too many.. or even I would take the "your mana base sucks")

+ 4 Tectonic Edge (because if you face Valakut, you're gonna get your face beat in)
"

See ? even if I' m not polite (in a way), I'm still doing positive constructicism

The other post was way better, and I was a bit out of line and sorry about that, Chrome but I was still mad at the other one.

oh and btw, FireBLT : I asked POSITIVE criticism, not criticsim. and like you said : I expect people to point out deck's weakness and stuff... it's just that there is a certain way to not make people angry.

People here have a tendency of "what you put in it sucks, and I"m gonna TELL you what to put in it" instead of " what do you think about "this"...and here's why : "bla bla bla"
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mysticism



Joined: 25 Mar 2011
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As pointed out before, you need the tectonic edges to combat valakut. Ive met several of them, so they are not going out of fashion.

You should also swap the hellskite for grave titans, because it would give you much more attacking potential because unless he counters it when it drops at about turn 4 (if your lucky) he wont really be able to defend against all the zombies. Also grave titan is less vurnurable to to removal (since most control ive played is playing 4 doom blades).

I dont belive the hunters call is really worth it here since you dont really want to go agressive until youve got a big guy out, and by then its either a win or the attacker will get removed (in either case you wont really benifit from it).

If your gonna keep this deck at the rotation, then i suppose you should run with Garruk the primal hunter, but until the change id rather see Garruk Wildspeaker since giving all your zombies trample and +3/+3 is awesome, or you can just give your mana dudes extra power to tap them out and win.

Yes you need to know when to play the BSZ but it still does not synergize with the rest of the deck. Swap it out for green sun instead since it gives more synergy.

Also i prefer to run 4 go for the throat in the main and 4 dooms on the SB whenever i play black, just because im far more likely to meet non-artifact then non-black
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mysticism wrote:
As pointed out before, you need the tectonic edges to combat valakut. Ive met several of them, so they are not going out of fashion.

You should also swap the hellskite for grave titans, because it would give you much more attacking potential because unless he counters it when it drops at about turn 4 (if your lucky) he wont really be able to defend against all the zombies. Also grave titan is less vurnurable to to removal (since most control ive played is playing 4 doom blades).

I dont belive the hunters call is really worth it here since you dont really want to go agressive until youve got a big guy out, and by then its either a win or the attacker will get removed (in either case you wont really benifit from it).

If your gonna keep this deck at the rotation, then i suppose you should run with Garruk the primal hunter, but until the change id rather see Garruk Wildspeaker since giving all your zombies trample and +3/+3 is awesome, or you can just give your mana dudes extra power to tap them out and win.

Yes you need to know when to play the BSZ but it still does not synergize with the rest of the deck. Swap it out for green sun instead since it gives more synergy.

Also i prefer to run 4 go for the throat in the main and 4 dooms on the SB whenever i play black, just because im far more likely to meet non-artifact then non-black


That is what I meant by constructive criticism... oh and the other poster also.
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Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found 59 Swamps and 1 Sorin Markov to work well. All i have to do is get Sorin out, put my opponent at 10, and then start dealing 2 damage a turn. Its flippin sweeeet!
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Sandro



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're gonna keep the lotus cobra in I'd add more fetchlands. Also I wouldn't put Green Zenith in bc it doesn't really get anything. That's stupid. I don't like either of the Hydras bc they're vulnerable to removal and either get answered or you win(wurmcoil and grave titan are similiar except if you answer them you still have some babies around to do work), but if you have to have one I like prim better. I'd -hydras +wurms/titans. Also tec edge you can just put in bc your deck isn't that mana intensive and you have fix already. Things you could try are some of the one mana discard or Liliana Vess. Vess is good in a deck where you're trying to outcard them or turn 3-4 Vess(tutor) turn 4-5 titan/wurm seems good. Just some ideas.

And like everyone else has already said and I'm sure you've gotten the point by now. If you come on here putting your deck up in front of everyone expect some criticism. It seems like you can't take it very well and just insta flamed anyone who said anything. Like the -lands +edges thing seems pretty obvious why it doesn't need an explanation. Just like you having wurmcoil in your deck and you not explaining why its in there. Its obvious. So, next time you post a deck if you want the forums help you should be a little nicer. They're the ones taking time out of their day to try and help you with suggestions. Have a good day and good luck with your deck.

Edit: And take out Hunter's insight. It makes you vulnerable to getting 2 for 1ed. That could be a few spots for some discard if that's the route you wanted to take. Or some Lilianas. Or whatever other goodies you wanna put in.
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cdubs



Joined: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 127

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Here is a list I made up for discussion Reply with quote

The cards here retain more value I believe and would like to see what and how you feel about some of my card choices.

The Rock
// Lands
4 [WWK] Tectonic Edge
7 [M12] Forest (3)
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats
5 [SOM] Swamp (4)
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

// Creatures
3 [M12] Grave Titan
4 [ZEN] Lotus Cobra
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
2 [SOM] Wurmcoil Engine
4 [M12] Birds of Paradise
2 [M12] Acidic Slime
3 [M12] Solemn Simulacrum

// Spells
3 [M12] Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 [M11] Liliana Vess
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [NPH] Sword of War and Peace
1 [MBS] Sword of Feast and Famine
3 [ROE] Inquisition of Kozilek
2 [NPH] Dismember
1 [M12] Doom Blade
1 [MBS] Go for the Throat
1 [NPH] Karn Liberated
1 [M11] Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [M12] Acidic Slime
SB: 2 [M11] Duress
SB: 3 [MBS] Phyrexian Crusader
SB: 3 [MBS] Creeping Corrosion
SB: 3 [SOM] Memoricide
SB: 3 [M11] Obstinate Baloth
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