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Zen Zen Zen 4-3-2-2 draft no 4.


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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject: Zen Zen Zen 4-3-2-2 draft no 4. Reply with quote

Back with another 4-3-2-2 I won again.

Event #: 647387
Time: 11/14/2009 8:46:18 PM
Players:
astarisk
--> ElementalMox
LuckyR
FakeShaver
Pugna
ruggles442
Inget
F3VER

------ ZEN ------

Pack 1 pick 1:
Oran-Rief Recluse
Narrow Escape
Goblin Shortcutter
Plated Geopede
Baloth Woodcrasher
--> Sorin Markov
Seismic Shudder
Quest for Pure Flame
Mountain
Guul Draz Vampire
Blood Seeker
Geyser Glider
Surrakar Marauder
Kor Cartographer
Spreading Seas

This is a really good pack the pick is obvious in the mythic bomb but pede is in my opinion the best common and Im a big fan of geyer gilder as well.

Pack 1 pick 2:
Vampire Lacerator
Mire Blight
Sunspring Expedition
Scythe Tiger
Zektar Shrine Expedition
Plains
--> Kor Hookmaster
Territorial Baloth
Carnage Altar
Slaughter Cry
Baloth Cage Trap
Murasa Pyromancer
Ior Ruin Expedition
Joraga Bard

I do not think the lacerator is quite a 2nd pick atleast pack 1, the baloth cage trap is a nice surprise but I think the hookmaster is the best card and I want to try out white.

Pack 1 pick 3:
Punishing Fire
Island
Crypt Ripper
--> Kor Hookmaster
Molten Ravager
Tempest Owl
Soul Stair Expedition
Oran-Rief Survivalist
Quest for the Gemblades
Feast of Blood
Mindless Null
Sunspring Expedition
Khalni Heart Expedition

The best card is the punishing fire however the hookmaster is not to far behind so i decided to stay with white.

Pack 1 pick 4:
Bog Tatters
Jwar Isle Refuge
--> Burst Lightning
Cancel
Sky Ruin Drake
Shieldmate's Blessing
Zendikar Farguide
Slaughter Cry
Beast Hunt
Windborne Charge
Turntimber Basilisk
Forest

Okay 4th pick is very late for a burst lightning pack 1 it looks like we are not going to be able to play our mythic bomb as I have not seen 1 good black card passed so Im moving into RW

Pack 1 pick 5:
Soaring Seacliff
Caravan Hurda
Territorial Baloth
Caller of Gales
Goblin War Paint
Swamp
Cobra Trap
--> Akoum Refuge
Narrow Escape
Kraken Hatchling
Seismic Shudder

I do not really like very much in this pack, if black is still on refuge allows me to splash the lightning.

Pack 1 pick 6:
Kor Cartographer
Relic Crush
Magma Rift
--> Kor Outfitter
Vampire's Bite
Trapfinder's Trick
Kor Duelist
Plains
Scythe Tiger
Merfolk Wayfinder

Is he better than the cartographer maybe not with landfall, hes another aggresive white dude anyway.

Pack 1 pick 7:
Zektar Shrine Expedition
--> Steppe Lynx
Nimbus Wings
Ior Ruin Expedition
Plains
Relic Crush
Vampire's Bite
Trapfinder's Trick
Zendikar Farguide

More aggresive white beats, we really are set into white now.

Pack 1 pick 8:
Landbind Ritual
Ondu Cleric
--> Goblin Bushwhacker
Merfolk Wayfinder
Expedition Map
Hedron Scrabbler
Swamp
Lethargy Trap

Could be good with all my aggresive guys

Pack 1 pick 9:
Narrow Escape
Seismic Shudder
Quest for Pure Flame
Mountain
Guul Draz Vampire
--> Kor Cartographer
Spreading Seas

This fits the plan nicely hopefully we can pick up some more lynx's

Pack 1 pick 10:
Mire Blight
Sunspring Expedition
Scythe Tiger
Plains
Carnage Altar
--> Ior Ruin Expedition

Pack 1 pick 11:
Island
--> Tempest Owl
Quest for the Gemblades
Mindless Null
Sunspring Expedition

Pack 1 pick 12:
Shieldmate's Blessing
Beast Hunt
--> Windborne Charge
Forest

Pack 1 pick 13:
--> Soaring Seacliff
Caller of Gales
Swamp

Pack 1 pick 14:
--> Trapfinder's Trick
Plains

Pack 1 pick 15:
--> Plains

------ ZEN ------

Pack 2 pick 1:
Territorial Baloth
Mark of Mutiny
Disfigure
Spire Barrage
River Boa
Kor Skyfisher
Soaring Seacliff
Whiplash Trap
Hedron Crab
Teetering Peaks
Mold Shambler
Stonework Puma
Vampire Lacerator
--> Sphinx of Lost Truths
Mountain

Okay so I am heavy white so spire barrage is not exciting, I could take the kor skyfisher but the sphinx is to good to pass up. Saw little good blue pack 1 so it should flow pack 2, I'll pick up anything to good to pass up and take white cards for the rest of it.

Pack 2 pick 2:
Runeflare Trap
Guul Draz Vampire
Makindi Shieldmate
Goblin War Paint
Steppe Lynx
Tanglesap
Mind Sludge (FOIL)
Kor Aeronaut
Goblin Bushwhacker
Tuktuk Grunts
Crypt Ripper
Spreading Seas
--> Merfolk Seastalkers
Mountain

Good aggresive white guys but the seastalkers falls into the category of too good to pass up.

Pack 2 pick 3:
Island
Spire Barrage
Slaughter Cry
Zektar Shrine Expedition
Runeflare Trap
Spidersilk Net
Tempest Owl
Feast of Blood
Mire Blight
--> Archive Trap
Hedron Scrabbler
Surrakar Marauder
Scythe Tiger

I need a 4th of these for an sb and it its worth a few tix i am going to rare draft it as nothing else excites me in this pack.

Pack 2 pick 4:
Goblin Ruinblaster
Lethargy Trap
Spidersilk Net
--> Heartstabber Mosquito
Ondu Cleric
Trapmaker's Snare
Tanglesap
Swamp
Goblin Bushwhacker
Vampire Hexmage
Goblin Shortcutter
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood

Ugh this is not promising hopefully is was just a pack with no goodies in for me at all, hatedraft the overcosted maw.

Pack 2 pick 5:
Highland Berserker
--> Kor Aeronaut
Adventuring Gear
Steppe Lynx
Devout Lightcaster
Tuktuk Grunts
Runeflare Trap
Sky Ruin Drake
Mountain
Nimana Sell-Sword
Expedition Map

I felt the flyer was better than the lynx though I am really not sure.

Pack 2 pick 6:
Hagra Crocodile
--> Kazandu Blademaster
Savage Silhouette
Molten Ravager
Jwar Isle Refuge
Forest
Shieldmate's Blessing
Shoal Serpent
Khalni Gem
Soul Stair Expedition

Nice hopefully i can pick up some allies even with out them this guy is a gem.

Pack 2 pick 7:
Mire Blight (FOIL)
Oran-Rief Recluse
Quest for Ancient Secrets
--> Bold Defense
Mountain
Surrakar Marauder
Vines of Vastwood
Ravenous Trap
Spidersilk Net

Nice combat trick to go with my aggressive men

Pack 2 pick 8:
--> Makindi Shieldmate
Island
Quest for the Holy Relic
Bold Defense
Turntimber Grove
Windborne Charge
Piranha Marsh
Desecrated Earth

Ally plus solid defensive creature

Pack 2 pick 9:
Territorial Baloth
Mark of Mutiny
--> Kor Skyfisher
Soaring Seacliff
Hedron Crab
Teetering Peaks
Mountain

Wow i considered this as my first pick briefly the fact this wheeled is very promising

Pack 2 pick 10:
Runeflare Trap
Goblin War Paint
--> Steppe Lynx
Tanglesap
Crypt Ripper
Spreading Seas

Huzah the lynx wheeled as well deck starting to come together nicely

Pack 2 pick 11:
Runeflare Trap
--> Spidersilk Net
Mire Blight
Hedron Scrabbler
Scythe Tiger

Pack 2 pick 12:
Lethargy Trap
--> Spidersilk Net
Tanglesap
Swamp

Pack 2 pick 13:
--> Steppe Lynx
Runeflare Trap
Mountain

wow the pack this was in was chock full of playables but I still did not expect this to wheel.

Pack 2 pick 14:
Forest
--> Shieldmate's Blessing

Pack 2 pick 15:
--> Mountain

------ ZEN ------

Pack 3 pick 1:
Nimana Sell-Sword
Inferno Trap
Vampire Lacerator
--> World Queller
Sky Ruin Drake
Burst Lightning
Unstable Footing
River Boa
Pillarfield Ox
Umara Raptor
Vines of Vastwood
Torch Slinger
Steppe Lynx
Bold Defense
Forest

Very good pack, the world queller is a bomb i think, otherwise the raptor ally and all would be very nice

Pack 3 pick 2:
Spell Pierce
Hagra Crocodile
Vampire Hexmage
Forest
Kabira Crossroads
Grim Discovery
Joraga Bard
Teetering Peaks
Brave the Elements
Kor Outfitter
Sunspring Expedition
Shoal Serpent
Mold Shambler
--> Merfolk Seastalkers

Another one of these guys to help me get my opponents speed bumps out of my little dudes way

Pack 3 pick 3:
Plains
Pillarfield Ox
Beast Hunt
Grim Discovery
Cancel
--> Living Tsunami
Hagra Diabolist
Joraga Bard
Quest for Pure Flame
Demolish
Noble Vestige
Paralyzing Grasp
Giant Scorpion

Wow I was not expecting to see much blue in these next few packs but two quality uncommons added to my pile.

Pack 3 pick 4:
Desecrated Earth
Tanglesap
Goblin Bushwhacker
Tuktuk Grunts
Narrow Escape
Oran-Rief Recluse
Primal Bellow
Lethargy Trap
Mountain
Pitfall Trap
--> Kor Hookmaster
Kazandu Refuge

Another solid guy able to shift speed bumps

Pack 3 pick 5:
Hagra Diabolist
Kraken Hatchling
Ondu Cleric
Piranha Marsh
Sky Ruin Drake
Goblin War Paint
Ravenous Trap
Nissa's Chosen
Swamp
--> Cliff Threader
Trailblazer's Boots

The cliff threader felt more suited to my deck than the drake, as its aggresive and red is a pretty popular colour

Pack 3 pick 6:
Swamp
Tanglesap
Ior Ruin Expedition
Seismic Shudder
--> Ęther Figment
Makindi Shieldmate
Turntimber Grove
Primal Bellow
Harrow
Caravan Hurda

Excellent evasive creature I never get why he comes so late, as he is top draw

Pack 3 pick 7:
Paralyzing Grasp
--> Brave the Elements
Shieldmate's Blessing
Cancel
Timbermaw Larva
Bog Tatters
Plains
Mire Blight
Zendikar Farguide

This was a tough decision, the grasp is great removal but the vast majorty of the time i am going to be on the offensive so its not that handy whilst the majorty of my creatures are white so this is actually pretty handy.

Pack 3 pick 8:
Quest for Ancient Secrets
Turntimber Grove
Ravenous Trap
Desecrated Earth
Kraken Hatchling
Mountain
--> Makindi Shieldmate
Caller of Gales

Doubt I am going to play it but, could come in vs decks with multiple pedes

Pack 3 pick 9:
Sky Ruin Drake
Unstable Footing
Pillarfield Ox
Vines of Vastwood
--> Steppe Lynx
Bold Defense
Forest

Another great wheel

Pack 3 pick 10:
Spell Pierce
Forest
Joraga Bard
Brave the Elements
--> Kor Outfitter
Sunspring Expedition

Solid bear

Pack 3 pick 11:
Plains
--> Pillarfield Ox
Beast Hunt
Demolish
Noble Vestige

Nor am I going to play but this is a speed bump i do not want in my way.

Pack 3 pick 12:
Desecrated Earth
--> Tanglesap
Lethargy Trap
Mountain

Pack 3 pick 13:
--> Kraken Hatchling
Goblin War Paint
Swamp

Again could come in vs pedes plus do not want to play against

Pack 3 pick 14:
Swamp
--> Tanglesap

Pack 3 pick 15:
--> Shieldmate's Blessing

The deck

4 steppe Lynx
1 aether figment
1 cliff threader
1 kazandu blademaster
1 kor aeronaut
2 kour outfitter
1 kor skyfisher
1 bold defense
3 kor hookmaster
1 windborne charge
1 kor cartographer
1 living tsunami
2 merfolk sea stalkers
1 sphinx of the lost truths
1 world queller
11 plains
6 island
1 soaring seacliff

I would like to say this draft is an excellent example of not getting sucked into a colour by one good card and the fact your first few picks are not that important I did not play my 1st, 4th or 5th pick. I could have ended up with a trainwreak black deck if i had been over obssesd with playing my sorin, or a much weaker deck if i had taken my 4th pick busrt lightning as the green light to go red.

Feedback appreciated.


Last edited by OldBear on Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JPirk87



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I mean, your draft went wrong from your second pick on. You just take lacerator and cut black, then t3,p1 you get crypt ripper followed by p4p1 burst, solid Rb deck. Lacerator is VERY good in this format. Bw is also a terrible combination, so taking hookmaster basically either abandons, sorin or waste a pick.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree about bw and think my deck would have been alot worse with one random bomb if I had tried to force black.
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Tonya



Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 57

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You pretty much should have been RB. I looked at every pick and you'd easily have been able to pull it off. Tons of aggressive creatures, GREAT removal, and Sorin is basically an I win card a lot of the times. I'm not saying you drafted a bad deck, but you made a lot of random picks and you jumped around colors.
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Markwerf



Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

100% agree with bouncyer, first pick was obvious and 2nd pick should have been lacerator for sure, its so good to be able to stick to one color for the first few picks because reading signals only gets obvious at pick 4-6 usually. Also any 2 color combo can work in this format but some are definately harder to get to work, white-black is one of those because both colors usually want to be dominant. Its just not gonna work manawise most of the time.
At your 4th pick you say you haven't seen one good black card being passed which is weird as you shipped lacerator and more importantly crypt ripper. By pack 4 you pick burst lightning then and you would end up really solid in black/red.
Also pick 1 pack 2, by that time you are really set into R/W already but you pick sphinx? hatedrafting at this point is stupid, the fact you saw little good blue makes even less sense as a argument that only means pack is gonna be even more troublesome if you switch....
There are no certainties when it comes to draft but R/B was definately the more sensitive choice here. Red seemed free, and both black and red are really deep in this set even if you fight for the cards its still often better then being alone in green for example. Though i definately don't say that you should never change colors abandoning black there was just silly as there were 3 solid cards first 3 picks and its such a deep color.
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svenihilator



Joined: 01 May 2008
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The poblem with black/white is that they are both of the most color intensive colors to play in zendikar. Almost all of their cheap early creatures at common and uncommon are double colored. Both colors offer no mana fixing to finding other colors.

I don't really know where I would have ended up at first glance. I haven't really looked at the picks.
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Deuce



Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red? Definitely. Black? Definitely. Lynx isn't that awesome if you don't get Fetches, Scopes, Kartographers. Hookmasters were nice though.. I just so disagree with the Sphinx pick, it was very weird if not for tix.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The person next to me was clearly in black there were no mid to late black cards I do not see how you can argue i should not be in white when I get Lynx 13th. Wheel Kor Skyfisher 9th find me any red or black cards that good coming that late wait you can not there was none.

I was def not set in RW. I had 1 good red card, as I was almost mono white, I had seen alot of good late white pick 1 7th lynx, 9th cartographer. So taking the sphinx makes perfect sense its a bomb and Im only commited to one colour. You may commit early I almost never do its my prefered stratergy and I have alot of sucess with it. 7th pick lynx 9th cartographer pack 1 are alot better signals than a 2nd lacerator, 3 crypt ripper.

If you look at the picks again after pack 4 both packs 1 and 3 you will be struggling to find any black playables.

Red there was some but I could have easily ended up WR as well thats the thing, just because I took that sphinx does not mean I play it if the cards do not come. If a busrt ligthing was the best card pack 2 pick 2 as opposed to sea stalker I would have took that, as it hapened I got alot of good early blue to back up the one colour you should 100% be in, in this draft white. I find it hard to believe anyone who thinks you should be in black has paid much attention to the cards after the first 4 picks.

Also picking up cards of only one colour early sets you up for a trainwreck when it gets cut, by taking 2 or 3 colours you stay open to what evers coming, rather than forcing yourself into a colour you do not want to be in.

I see the argument for BW being bad due to the colour comitment and I think its a good one. I was going on the fact the majorty of finals that I have lost in this format have been to really aggresive bw decks. I think with prudent drafting you can often avoid the colour commitment problem. This was ceratinly true of the gr decks in med3 where you wanted multiple stalking tigers and raging minoutaurs.
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JPirk87



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 152

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trotsky,

This is going to sound rude, but its for your own good. Its actually retarded to post a draft, where you draft poorly, can't explain your own pics, then on top of that, ignore the majority of comments explaining how cutting a color is actually effective. Not only that, but you are justifying yourself based on pack 2 and 3 picks which would have been hugely influenced by you not taking black cards p1. I'm not insulting you. I truly hope you learn something out of this.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've explained all my picks, I happen to think this is a good draft, after all I did win.

There is more than one philosphy to drafting I happen to really dislike forcing a colour regardless of what I open. I've argued against it logically.

I did not get my 1841 limited modo rating purely by chance. I've counter argued any argument made about forcing a colour I've listened disagreed and explained my logic as to why.

You on the other hand have not really answered any of the arguments I am making. Regardless of pack 9th pick first picks and 13th pick high picks have been all the way around the table and are a sign you are in the right colour.
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FlyingFreak



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 191
Location: Belgium

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pick 2 you really should picked the Lacerator
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Sprouts



Joined: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Though i would probably tried to stick to black in the first picks, it is obvious i would get wrecked for this. Someone in front of me is obviously cutting all the black. I would just have to switch to white probably. Anyone who sees the draft realizes he ended up with a much better deck than he would have if he went on with black.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sprouts thankyou, you just made my day as even if you do not agree with what I am saying, you have grasped what this draft illustrates.

Okay I think there are a series of justifiable ways to start this draft. Im fine with taking the lacerator pick 2 (though I think the kor is stronger), then punishing fire pick 3, burst lightning pick 4, then abandoning black and moving into white as its become abundantly clear its not open.

The funny thing is people go on about how the first few picks do not matter but then pay no heed to that idea and commit all into black from pack 1 putting all there eggs in one basket. Taking weaker cards just to stay in the colour, this will result in stronger decks when it works but when it fails you are in danger of ending up with a train wreck.

If the first few picks do not matter just take the best card regardless of colour and then, when it becomes clear of what colours you should be in you'll have at least a few playables in that colour.

This is why I actually do not like getting a first 4 packs where all the best cards are in the same colour, Im shafted out of 4 cards or end up cut and as consequence with a weak deck if the person next to me moves into that colour. I prefer to take atleast two different colours over the first 4 picks.
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Dr_Nico



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really fail at drafting if you think he could have ended with a better deck in RB. Trotsky your draft was smart and good, maybe some picks can be debated but the format is still too young to talk about orders.
All around a good job.
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dv8r



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seconded, but I think your third pick is just WRONG, crypt ripper is one of the best cards in a base black strategy at the top of your curve, hookmaster is a 3 mana 2/2 (albeit a good one)

I dislike p1p8, I think you should take the ondu cleric here on the offchance you get a ton of allies late


other than that I think I mirror your picks in this draft. although I do feel that I need to point out that just because you won, it doesn't mean that you are right. that's a logical falacy.
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