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You Make the Momir: number of creatures for each cmc



 
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DARKING
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 13 Jun 2006
Posts: 256

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: You Make the Momir: number of creatures for each cmc Reply with quote

Ok, there seems to be enough people interested on Momir Basic. For this to continue, we need to start to figure out how many creatures we will include in the list.

There are over 5000 creatures in magic. Putting them all on a list is such a great work, that I believe the correct approach is to select only a few dozens of each cmc.

The question is: how many creatures in each mana cost we should use, so we can have a list with enough variety but not so many if would become a burden to make, mantain, and read?

To give you an idea, this is the number of creatures in each cmc (not excluding un-cards)

cmc - number

0 - 9
1 - 442
2 - 905
3 - 1243
4 - 1184
5 - 734
6 - 396
7 - 187
8 - 79
9 - 25
10 - 10
11 - 4
12 - 1
15 - 2
16 - 1

Obviously, in some cmc the list is so small that we can include them all (that is, on 0, 9, 10, 11, 12, 15, 16). The question remains, how many for the rest? Should we use the same number for all cmc? A different number for each cmc? And what is that number? 25? 50? 100? 200?

This is where we need to do brainstorming. Post your suggestion of the number or numbers, and why, why not, possible cons a pros, etc. Anything that can help. This will help determine how we will develop the format.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

listing them all would not be hard. just make a deck on mws of one of each, then copy to clipboard. group them by cmc and give them each a number.
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TugaChampion



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think removing creatures is necessary to reduce the number is necessary. However we could remove some creatures with too much wording or those that have strange rullings.
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cloysterd



Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At least remove the ones that die on arrival (Cognivore) and the ones that completely cripple/kill their controller (Eater of Days, Phage).
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cloysterd wrote:
At least remove the ones that die on arrival (Cognivore) and the ones that completely cripple/kill their controller (Eater of Days, Phage).


you should not remove phage etc from the list thats the fun point of momir basic
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Haro
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since Momir basic is all about casual and fun times, I would start hacking away at all the vanilla creatures first and see how much are gone first.
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rdeg87



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you determine the creature by roling a die, why not have the number at 20.
Its a large enough number without having to do too much research into each creature and its a convenient number since your going to be using Ctrl+i nearly every turn anyway

Edit* Also I agree with Gypsy, Phage has got to be in the format
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Tidus-
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 27 Oct 2004
Posts: 319

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why cut any creatures at all?

That seems to compeltely defeat the point of random

if someone had the time to right down each creature with each cost and assgin them a number mws can roll a dice with as many side as you wish.

The point of momir basic is to be compltley random and this woould be the only way to really make it work.

If people really want to play it so badly dont take short cuts just do it properly and put the work in
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TugaChampion



Joined: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 615

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rdeg87: 20 is a very small number. When rolling for cmc 7 you would have a 1/20 chances to get phage which is pretty high for something that makes you lose no matter what. 1/187 is way less and it actually makes the game fun where you'll always risk getting phage unless you have a really huge advantage.

Also in MWS you can roll a 23549 sided dice or any other number.
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rdeg87



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problenm is there are too amny stupidly bad creatures in MTG, with 20 you can have all good creatures and you have a chance to get them. Unlike with all creatures you actually have a chance of getting a really good creature like Visara 1/20 as opposed to about 1/396.
I played this on MTGO and it had a limited amount of creatures. (anyone else who played this can back me up)

With 20 you have a very simple way of determining the creature and Darking doesnt have to spend hours and hours of his life researching 500+ creatures

And yes 1/20 chance to get Phage, thats what makes it fun, and dangerous to role for 7 cmc


Here's a good reference of how the game plays out and a list of creatures.

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/eventcoverage/worlds08/beat-the-champs
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SaTiVa
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 289

PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/fk18

this has a table showing the numbers used by Magic Online

it has ~200 to 600 critters for the common cmcs (1-6)

If we use this as a guideit seems like about 1/2 to a 1/3 of the critters are used at each of these cmcs
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not just use all the creatures in ext or something so that you dont have to use super obscure creatures and a huge cardpool
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