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Fraggle Rock or Doran-Lark-Charm Aggro-Control


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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Fraggle Rock or Doran-Lark-Charm Aggro-Control Reply with quote

So I have been messing around with a 4 color aggro-control deck. The list that I came up with is based around a "Lucky Charms" list that a friend of mine played. I really wanted to deck to have dense threats, disruption, tutoring, and drawing. I know that I am missing one of the prime items that makes ROCK work. What I am really missing is some type of mana ramping. I can hit my drops almost every turn thanks to the Treefolk Harbingers and Civic Wayfinders in the main. I have really thought about droping the Treefolk Harbingers for Birds of Paradise. I know that I would lose my tutor package (Doran, Bosk,Inversion, and Chameleon Colossus from the side) and the swing for 3 with Doran in play. What I would gain is turn 2 Doran or easier charms, faster Lark or Mulldrifter.

// Lands
4 [MOR] Murmuring Bosk
4 [LRW] Vivid Grove
4 [SHM] Reflecting Pool
4 [ALA] Plains (4)
4 [ALA] Swamp (1)
2 [ALA] Forest (4)
2 [ALA] Island (2)

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Treefolk Harbinger
4 [10E] Civic Wayfinder
4 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
4 [MOR] Reveillark

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [LRW] Nameless Inversion
4 [ALA] Esper Charm
4 [ALA] Bant Charm

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ALA] Infest
SB: 3 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
SB: 3 [LRW] Profane Command
SB: 3 [LRW] Primal Command
SB: 2 [MOR] Chameleon Colossus

My match ups that I worry about are the extreme decks like RDW/Kithkin from the aggro side or 5 color Wizards or Urg Swans from the control side. With the aggro decks if I have 10 life when I get board control then it's win. The control match is about being faster then they are. This is where the real debate about Birds vs Treefolk Harbinger. Treefolk Harbinger is good in the aggro match. It's a tutor with a wall on the backside that lives though Infest. Treefolk Harbringer is not so great in the control match. Birds of Paradise makes me faster vs 5 color Wizards Urg Swans. Birds just die to all of the mass removal that they play. Birds are kinda bad vs both extreme deck concepts. Any thoughts on the this slot would be helpful to me.

Thanks for your time!
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varno345



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok i think you are on to something great here, maybe put something like glen elendra archmage in the side/main as a trump card for those 5 color matchups.
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magicbmx



Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes varno glen is really good but u are also forgetting tegg is like really good in many match ups so i think he should find his way maindeck for sure. I mean the deck looks really solid
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varno345



Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

im stealing this idea and making it better lol (but i will of course give credit to the OP) Also i might just make it 5 colors and call it 5 color doran.
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aldaryn



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your mana base desperately wants some painlands...
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aldaryn wrote:
Your mana base desperately wants some painlands...


And filterlands, and more vivids.

Basically, cut the basics altogether
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really think that some basic are fine. I have pondered cutting a few basic lands. I would not add any more Vivid lands. This is not a pure control deck, so it could not afford the tempo loss. If I played more changeling cards I could play a few Tribal lands. So other then the basic lands, are there any cards that I missed other then Arch-Mage?

I like the basics as I see a lot of Fulm Mage in my town. So Civic Wayfinder puts the tempo in back in your hands.
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Hatredy



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see a lot of potential in this particular decklist. You're trying to do aggro-control but your deck doesn't have many aggro or control elements.

The only aggro card is Doran. Aside from that you have a bunch of overcosted 2-power beaters and Lark, who comes in turn 5 at earliest.

In terms of control you have no counters and no sweepers. Esper Charm and Thoughtseize are denial at best, and your removal is 1-for-1.

Suggestions -

Move chameleon to main, he's another undercosted aggro threat, easily capable of killing an opponent by himself and one of the most powerful cards in the format.

Most of my other suggestions would require changes to the mana base. I don't think civic wayfinder is worth a card slot and without him you should only be playing 1 type of basic land at most. If you want to go a more tempo/disruption route, cut wayfinder for fulminator (nice synergy with lark), find room for the scullers main, and try Mind Shatter cause it's a game winner.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not like the treefolk harbinger they are so rubbish with out doran. You have alot of 3 drops so bop or llanowar elves possibly both seem like a more natural fit.
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Eldar



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Rochester

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 4c doran list that I have been playing since the shards release and it works pretty well. If anyone is interested I'll pm a list so far it has gone 11-1 in tournament play (at FNM if that means anything) only losing to mana screw game 1 and mana screw game 3.
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Triggers



Joined: 08 Sep 2008
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trotsky1 wrote:
I do not like the treefolk harbinger they are so rubbish with out doran. You have alot of 3 drops so bop or llanowar elves possibly both seem like a more natural fit.


4 [LRW] Doran, the Siege Tower


Confused
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Spyx



Joined: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1188

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He means when Doran is not in play. And yes I agree.
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zturchan



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

funny how you would then proceed to search for the doran with the aforementioned harbinger
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BL



Joined: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 21

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, habringer will search for doran and be better itself, but how many harbingers are right for the deck? Clearly, not four. And what is a good 1-drop that has proven itself time and time again that goes a long way in improving a shaky manabase? You are playing four colours ffs. FOUR. In a non-control deck. And there are no birds? Cut some harbingers(2), some charms(2 bant and 1 esper probably), a thoughtseize(1), a Wayfinder(1), perhaps a Reveillark(1, not so many good targets), a land(1) and add 4 birds, two collossi and some scullers to lower the curve a little. Also drop some basics and add a few gilt-leaf palaces, painlands and/or filter lands as others mentioned. Test it and you will feel the improvement. Let us know.
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ACM
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With maindeck Colossuses, the Harbingers would be more alright.
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