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Merfolk - Ponder vs. Ancestral Vision



 
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jazzbat



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Merfolk - Ponder vs. Ancestral Vision Reply with quote

Which card is superior in UW Merfolk? I love Ancestral Vision, but Ponder does provide a greater advantage early on, which is very important for this quick build.

I'm leaning toward Ponder but I would like to hear what some other people think and why.
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nasa



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i play ponder for a couple reasons over a. visions
although visions is great in fae, fae is a much different deck than merfolk, you want to shoot down guys very fast and then use your counter back up to protect and cryptic to win most of the time.
with ponder it helps you find cards that you need immediatly, like an extra lord when you want it, an additional counterspell or whatever you're in need of.

you rarely want to play visions on turn 1 in merfolk, which makes it pseudo dead, because if you've played the deck im sure you've noticed that it can win very fast, so waiting 4 turns for 3 cards is not good, this deck doesnt slowly bleed your opp. like fae, it usually wins with one large strike. (of course you do deal some damage before but you usually strike for the win with something along the lines of 12 damage)

as for why you dont want to play visions on turn one, you would rather have curse catcher out there turn one just for a body to come out. your ideal drops would be
t1. cursecatcher
t2. stoneybrook banneret
t3. ponder/one lord


visions is good, but i just feel that ponder's ability to not be dead late game and ability to immediatly smooth out your draw is much better in merfolk.
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Delicious



Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 883

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nasa wrote:
i play ponder for a couple reasons over a. visions
although visions is great in fae, fae is a much different deck than merfolk, you want to shoot down guys very fast and then use your counter back up to protect and cryptic to win most of the time.
with ponder it helps you find cards that you need immediatly, like an extra lord when you want it, an additional counterspell or whatever you're in need of.

you rarely want to play visions on turn 1 in merfolk, which makes it pseudo dead, because if you've played the deck im sure you've noticed that it can win very fast, so waiting 4 turns for 3 cards is not good, this deck doesnt slowly bleed your opp. like fae, it usually wins with one large strike. (of course you do deal some damage before but you usually strike for the win with something along the lines of 12 damage)

as for why you dont want to play visions on turn one, you would rather have curse catcher out there turn one just for a body to come out. your ideal drops would be
t1. cursecatcher
t2. stoneybrook banneret
t3. ponder/one lord


visions is good, but i just feel that ponder's ability to not be dead late game and ability to immediatly smooth out your draw is much better in merfolk.


qft
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JeZeus



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 225

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I play Ponder over Ancestral myself. I've personally won more then a few games keeping 1 land hands with a ponder. Its pretty amazing for the deck, because it gives you something right away and for cheap. It works really nice if you have Stony + Reerjay out after you've played all your free folk turn 3 folk with you 1 mana open finishing off with ponder just feel nice. However I've found in the Mirror match that the player using Ancestral seems to have an edge. . . . at the in the games I've played.
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diablo2666



Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Mirror Reply with quote

I totally have to disagree... i just won a mirror because i was able to perfect my draw. he suspended 2 vision but was never able to keep up with my beats. he had to answer my threats and that was his problem. it was in both games... ponder did me great favours and i really like that card. and u can say: hey i play a card 4 times, that is restricted in vintage ;D
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ponder is better in merfolk because you dont want to sit back on counters and wait to draw cards like faeries u want to put preassure on ur opponent and then counter key spells like firespouts and ponder helps smooth out ur draws then u just have an extra mana and you can keep 1 land hands
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe Faeries should use 4 Ponders and 4 Visions.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you'll find most of the pros went with ancestral visions at PT Hollywood, though i think its entirely possible to run both. Though if I had to choose one i would play Ancestral Visions.

Ponder makes 1 land hands more keepable. Ancesrtal visions is more powerfull and will win you more long games. Ponders affect is imediate, ancestrals effect is delayed and could be to late by the time it resolves. Thats a very short version of the argument for both sides.

I like visions because percentage wise the amount of 1 land hands you will get with 22 lands in your deck is very low somewhere between 1-4% if i remember correctly and then that hand also has to have ponder in it so the amount of time that is relevant gets lower and I do not think its enough to build a case around. So go with the more powerfull card.
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gypsy



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 1671

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you dont want to go into the long game, you want to bash face then counter stuff before they have time to set up not try to out attrition war them
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el_cuervito



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4 visions
2 ponder
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gypsy wrote:
you dont want to go into the long game, you want to bash face then counter stuff before they have time to set up not try to out attrition war them


That's why the deck loses to black and red. They just kill your creatures the first 4 turns when you are tapped out, so that you never get the clock going.

Ancestral Vision helps the deck going control against faster decks. Ponder does not.
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