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Forums of Magic-League: Free Online tcg playing; casual or tournament play.
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JA0
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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i think bitterblossom would fit well in a deck like this somewhere...
maybe even put 1 or 2 profane command???? |
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JeZeus
Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Well the first thing I see is no coldsteel heart I think its pretty well mandatory for the deck. All so I found that Poison the well kicked ass that 2 damage adds up.Hm Oh right, and that Bitterblossom is awesome for the deck too. |
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FuryMage
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Bitterblossom may be a surprisingly good choice, I'll have to consider it in playtesting.
After playtesting this deck somewhat extensively, I think it unfortunately has to fall under the category of rogue decks that can't quite make the cut because of the circle-jerk variety of decks that are in T2 at this time. It's been consisent enough to be interesting, but where this deck draws from ideas, and thought, most decks in T2 right now are simply given the cards they need to be good. I think this requires a couple of things to be good:
A very specific metagame, and luck that it doesn't get manaflood/screw.
I'll keep working on it, as I truly feel it has potential, but I think It will have to be "given" cards perfect for it in future sets before it would be strongly competitive. |
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JA0
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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well if you can keep the LD up and they have a swarm drop a damnation on them then drop bitterblossom, and it could be GG,
but if they have bitterblossom too then you have to work around that,
too bad there are no good enchantment removals to use for SB if they play bitterblossom too...
ima start playtesting this deck see if i can come up with a good build.... |
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noobmellow
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 200
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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4 Avalanche Riders
4 Boom // Bust
1 Damnation
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Graven Cairns
4 Manamorphose
3 Mountain
3 Pyroclasm
4 Rain of Tears
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Smallpox
4 Sulfurous Springs
4 Swamp
4 Terramorphic Expanse
4 Thoughtsieze
4 Tombstalker
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Thats the list i run. lots of lands and parallel destruction for earlier land denial.. i think i need to put in more spot removal though. sugguestiosn? tks
ill try ur list blackmage tks |
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Skellum
Joined: 11 Nov 2004
Posts: 48
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| Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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I took a GB ld deck to my regionals and came 2nd with it.
i actually really think that the green is necassary since it gives you accelerants for turn 2 LD which is needed in the enviroment
This was my list if anyone is interested
4 Gilt leaf palace
2 Reflecting pool
4 swamp
6 forest
4 llanowar wastes
2 urborg
1 murrmering bosk
3 cloudthreasher
3 fulminator mage
3 bops
3 llanowar elves
3 shriekmaw
4 chameleon colossus
4 mwonvuli acid moss
4 rain of tears
4 nameless inversion
4 primal command
2 creeping mold
There were many times on the play i got a turn 2 LD and they didn't get of 1 land at all even faeries can't counter a spell on 1 land |
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JA0
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
4 [FUT] Graven Cairns
4 [6E] Sulfurous Springs
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
7 [DM] Mountain (2)
8 [U] Swamp (3)
// Creatures
4 [PRE] Demigod of Revenge
4 [FNM] Avalanche Riders
4 [SHM] Fulminator Mage
3 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
// Spells
4 [MM] Rain of Tears
4 [MI] Incinerate
4 [10E] Shock
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [MOR] Bitterblossom
2 [LRW] Profane Command
ok well i decided to take a stab at a variant of this LD deck, here is a quick build i did...
only have tested it against fairies and red-black token....
fairies im 3-1
and RB token im 4-0
pretty much ive noticed if i dont draw my LD its hard to take control...
but ima add a few changes and retest against some other decks and a few random players see how it does.... |
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cherub
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ILikeBananas wrote: | In an aggro format where cheap efficient beaters is king, mana denial is not effective, period. The only real effect LD should have is to deny certain colors from your opponent.
No matter how efficient LD spells get, it should still only be a side strategy rather than a main focus. Simply put, destroying a land is a one for one trade usually. Destroying lands don't help you win directly. Plus, if the strategy doesn't work, then drawing LD spells late in the game will be useless. It's kind of like discard. If you run 20 discard spells, you'll hate yourself when you draw some when opponent has empty hand.
If you want LD, I recommend spells that do more than just destroy lands. Fulminator mage is a good choice, along with acid moss, and Deus of calamity, avalanche riders. These 4 cards do something more than just destroy lands. Cards like plunder, icefall, and rain of tears I highly don't recommend. |
I want to start by agreeing with you, in that the main point you made is true. It's hard to win by landkill alone. It only takes 2 mana for them to cast a bitterblossom. Then, if you decide to answer it on your next turn, that will waste mana that you would have spent on landkill. Which gives your opponent another draw, which could be another land. Now you have to kill 2 to make up for the one you didn't kill last turn. Why do you need to do it so quickly? This brings me to my next point.
Where landkill really shines, is early game. Pay attention to his first two plays, he may have kept a hand he shouldn't have. Here is where you can deliver a cruel punishment. A boom on turn 2 can spell mana screw for several turns. That's the best strategy I've found for landkill. Make them stumble early game, and keep them down until your own field is set up for your main strategy.
Color screw early game or mid game can have similar results as discussed above. But of course you need to be familiar with their deck to make a good decision whether that's worth trying. They could have a hand full of that color you're trying to deny. Same goes for targeting a specific land, like scrying sheets.
But both strategies I've discussed above, rely on early game landkill spells. There is a WORLD of difference between a two cost landkill and a three cost landkill. A turn 2 landkill using boom, followed by a turn 5 landkill using poison the well will normally play out very different than a single turn 3 or turn 4 rain of tears followed by more landkill later in the game.
Boom is excellent, but you need to build around it heavy, so it doesn't end up backfiring on you. Flagstones of trokair seems like the easiest fix but I never really got to test it.
You mention drawing landkill late game, and how lousy that is. You forgot about bust. If you have board advantage, and they are either tapped out or not likely to be able to use the mana, it can be a worthwhile gamble. Because the turn after, it becomes a topdeck war, and if you held back some lands you might actually survive the bust and recover faster for the win.
In play testing, cryoclasm is insanely good against white/weenie/kithkin but terrible against decks that don't play tons of plains. Tons of islands, not quite as good. It's a race to see who can do what first. Rune snag first, it's over. Cryoclasm first, then they're down a mana for their counter spells so you might squeeze by and draw into another one. I love that cryoclasm only costs 3, and just like poison the well it can win you half the game alone because it's doing damage at the same time. Unfortunately, I think those are the only two cards like that. Also, with the new meta cryoclasm could possibly make it mainboard with painters servant and prismatic omen around.
some other landkill methods, not mentioned so far
detritivore(could be a sleeping beauty, in new meta)
restore balance(too clunky)
necrotic sliver
vesuva(currently, not enough legendary's around to be useful)
what else??? |
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getmatt201
Joined: 01 Nov 2006
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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This is the LD deck I have been playing in FNM since shadowmoor became legal.
// Lands
2 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 [FUT] Keldon Megaliths
2 [MOR] Mutavault
2 [UG] Mountain
4 [FUT] Graven Cairns
4 [10E] Ghitu Encampment
4 [LRW] Auntie's Hovel
3 [SHM] Swamp (3)
1 [TSP] Kher Keep
// Creatures
4 [TSB] Avalanche Riders
4 [SHM] Murderous Redcap
4 [10E] Mogg Fanatic
4 [SHM] Fulminator Mage
// Spells
4 [10E] Mind Stone
4 [PLC] Damnation
4 [LRW] Profane Command
4 [LRW] Makeshift Mannequin
4 [10E] Rain of Tears
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SHM] Vexing Shusher
SB: 3 [CS] Deathmark
SB: 3 [SHM] Polluted Bonds
SB: 2 [TSP] Sudden Spoiling
SB: 4 [10E] Pyroclasm
Since I started playing this I have gotten 1st 3 times, 2nd 4 times, and 3rd 4 times.(those numbers were just a guess but I haven't gotten below 3rd) Its amazing. The fact that u get to use the LD over and over with manequin and profane make it hard for them to ever play cards. Lots of games I play with this deck my opponent doesn't have any permanents. lol |
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