 |
Magic-League.com
Forums of Magic-League: Free Online Magic: the Gathering Play with Apprentice and Magic Workstation; casual or tournament play.
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
Manveru
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 15
|
 Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 12:35 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Also it might be nice to find some space for Orzhov Pontiffs. They are very useful in most BW decks. I'd actually use them over Descendant if I were you. Or SB them and swap when needed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Bl1zzard
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 19
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Hmm.. I think If I was to drop Descendant, I'd trade them for Abyssal Nocturnus, which would make a lot more sense, and is also a good combo (gerrard + abyssal-> attack for 6 unblockable damage). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kfcman
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 665
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| gypsy wrote: | | ext is gonna rotate in a few months |
yea, like 6 months...
With discard you want solid big body creatures, that while you are disrupting their gameplan, you are smashin' face with yor dudes. Also from your creatures, you need guys that can contain aggro. So i would say drop the shortfangs and add Bobby (dark confidant) as he gives you extra cards, and is a bear to attack with, also, against aggro you can sac him to a therapy if hes costing you too much life.
Also, spell wise, with discard decks your removal spells need to be mega-versatile so if they do get some things down under your disruption you can cleanu-up no problem. I would suggest dumping the Death Grasp, as A you run low amounts of land, and B X-spells are not too great in this tempo-y disruption-y deck style. The phyrexian areans aren't too great in this deck because they don't attack for damage, and you have to spend a spell to remove them if you dont want to lose life anymore.
Third, 18 land is definitely a problem. You need more the likes of 22 or 23 for a consistent A/C. Also, i see you're most likely on some sort of budget, but either way +4 godless shrine would be good, and would be your land count at 22.
So, all said, i would make the following changes:
-4 Nezumi Shortfang
-1 Cabal Therapy
-3 Phyrexian Arena
-4 Death Grasp
+4 Dark Confidant
+4 Godless Shrine
+ Vindicate (I know you said you didn't have vindicates but if you want this deck to be serious, vindicate is THE big man on campus in these colors. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bl1zzard
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 19
|
| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hmm, yes thanks kfcman, your post sure made me rethink couple things! Especially the 18 land.
About the Vindicate / Dark Confidant, I can only say that I can't trade them atm, and even if I had the money to buy them (which I don't have.. vindicates are really expensive..), they're out of stock in my magic store.
Having said that, I can't get godless shrine either :p .. But of course, this is just for the moment! Maybe in one month I'll get to buy / trade them! 
well, how about this then:
Creatures
4 Spectral Lynx
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Abyssal Nocturnus
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Tombstalker
Spells
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Wrench Mind/Distress
4 Mortify
2 Haunting Echoes
Lands -
5 plains
10 swamps
3 caves of koilos
4 tainted field
This seems a lot more consistent to me. I feel If I played vs U/G Madness, with abyssal nocturnus (vs mongrel haha!), it would rape 
btw I came by this really old card, that I had forgotten its existence, Volrath's Dungeon! haha! good card for mono black perhaps? probably exodus isnt allowed in extended though
EDIT: Someone thinks sword of fire and ice would fit in here? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
natethetank
Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 67
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Manveru wrote: | | Mono B Discard with Megrim/Rack is better IMO. Take a look at the topic just below yours. It's ten times better to deal damage that way, instead of using crap creatures like Jotun Grunt or Spectral Lynx. |
april fools day was a while ago dude. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Manveru
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 15
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 4:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
I was being serious. But that's not the point of this thread  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kfcman
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 665
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
The haunting echoes are definitely a SB card, not a MD card. Sword of fire and ice would be good as you are on a budget and cannot get jittes.
Also, i think you have way too many discard spells. Once you empty their hand, those are all dead cards, and you need more solid creatures that are good at going into combat. So.
-2 Haunting Echoes
-4 Wrench Mind
+3 Sword of Fire and Ice
+3 Descendant of Kiyomaro / Silver Knight |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bl1zzard
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 19
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kfcman wrote: | The haunting echoes are definitely a SB card, not a MD card. Sword of fire and ice would be good as you are on a budget and cannot get jittes.
Also, i think you have way too many discard spells. Once you empty their hand, those are all dead cards, and you need more solid creatures that are good at going into combat. So.
-2 Haunting Echoes
-4 Wrench Mind
+3 Sword of Fire and Ice
+3 Descendant of Kiyomaro / Silver Knight |
Actually, Jitte goes for exacly the same price as sword of fire and ice LOL.. I might try and get three |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
SaTiVa
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 189
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Manveru wrote: | | My opponent can only remove it if he has a lucky draw, because he almost never has any cards in hand. Arena gives me a good enough chance to get multiple Bridges. So I sit back and let Rack eat him. Yum. Deserts help too |
well an opponent who isnt retarded will just hold 3 cards in hand until 1 u keep a card in hand b/c u rip 2 x land off ur arena or he draws an answer... also 1 card is enough for gobbies to eat u alive because 2x(1/1) gobbies + 2 pile drivvers get by for an extrodinay 16 dmg |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kfcman
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 665
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bl1zzard wrote: | | kfcman wrote: | The haunting echoes are definitely a SB card, not a MD card. Sword of fire and ice would be good as you are on a budget and cannot get jittes.
Also, i think you have way too many discard spells. Once you empty their hand, those are all dead cards, and you need more solid creatures that are good at going into combat. So.
-2 Haunting Echoes
-4 Wrench Mind
+3 Sword of Fire and Ice
+3 Descendant of Kiyomaro / Silver Knight |
Actually, Jitte goes for exacly the same price as sword of fire and ice LOL.. I might try and get three |
well prices vary regionally, but if you can get jittes, great. they are good on silver knights, decendants, spectral lynx. Well it's good on anything, but it excels on great combat creatures. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bl1zzard
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 19
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Alright so today I got some of the cards I wanted, borrowed a few (yay got vindicates borrowed) and did some testing. And practise is a lot diferent than theory expected, that's why I discovered that Abyssal's dont work in this deck. Neither them, nor Cabal Therapy really. I ended up having 2 cabal therapy's in my hand knowing nothing about his hand, which was pretty much useless. Playing with both Mortify and Vindicate was just massive destruction. And I tried using Death Grasps again, as I was flowing a lot of mana in every game, and they fit in really well, not only killing whatever is left but regaining my life.
All in all, I ended up happy with this set:
Creatures
4 Spectral Lynx
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Descendant of Kiyomaro
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Tombstalker
Spells
4 Duress
3 Wrench Mind
4 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Mortify
3 Vindicate
4 Death Grasp
Lands
12 swamps
6 plains
4 tainted field
Getting Tombstalker as soon as 4th turn, due to discard spells, was really nice . I really need to get my hands on those vindicates somehow, they're sooo good 
I might do some more tweaking in a few days, trying to fit in Jitte / sword of fire and ice or even maybe some infests, but I'll test this one for a bit longer now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Manveru
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 15
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| SaTiVa wrote: | | Manveru wrote: | | My opponent can only remove it if he has a lucky draw, because he almost never has any cards in hand. Arena gives me a good enough chance to get multiple Bridges. So I sit back and let Rack eat him. Yum. Deserts help too |
well an opponent who isnt retarded will just hold 3 cards in hand until 1 u keep a card in hand b/c u rip 2 x land off ur arena or he draws an answer... also 1 card is enough for gobbies to eat u alive because 2x(1/1) gobbies + 2 pile drivvers get by for an extrodinay 16 dmg |
No he won't be able to hold any cards in hand because I'll discard them. Unless I misunderstood what you meant. And yes you're right about piledrivers and stuff like drawing double lands with arena, it can happen. Many things can, I'm not saying I always win or something It's just that I find this deck fun to play and I'm always looking for improvements.
@up
It looks really good. Discard with 4 Mortify and 3 Vindicate is like.. ouch. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kfcman
Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 665
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bl1zzard wrote: | Alright so today I got some of the cards I wanted, borrowed a few (yay got vindicates borrowed) and did some testing. And practise is a lot diferent than theory expected, that's why I discovered that Abyssal's dont work in this deck. Neither them, nor Cabal Therapy really. I ended up having 2 cabal therapy's in my hand knowing nothing about his hand, which was pretty much useless. Playing with both Mortify and Vindicate was just massive destruction. And I tried using Death Grasps again, as I was flowing a lot of mana in every game, and they fit in really well, not only killing whatever is left but regaining my life.
All in all, I ended up happy with this set:
Creatures
4 Spectral Lynx
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Descendant of Kiyomaro
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Tombstalker
Spells
4 Duress
3 Wrench Mind
4 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Mortify
3 Vindicate
4 Death Grasp
Lands
12 swamps
6 plains
4 tainted field
Getting Tombstalker as soon as 4th turn, due to discard spells, was really nice . I really need to get my hands on those vindicates somehow, they're sooo good
I might do some more tweaking in a few days, trying to fit in Jitte / sword of fire and ice or even maybe some infests, but I'll test this one for a bit longer now |
how did those death grasps sneak back in ? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bl1zzard
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 19
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kfcman wrote: | | Bl1zzard wrote: | Alright so today I got some of the cards I wanted, borrowed a few (yay got vindicates borrowed) and did some testing. And practise is a lot diferent than theory expected, that's why I discovered that Abyssal's dont work in this deck. Neither them, nor Cabal Therapy really. I ended up having 2 cabal therapy's in my hand knowing nothing about his hand, which was pretty much useless. Playing with both Mortify and Vindicate was just massive destruction. And I tried using Death Grasps again, as I was flowing a lot of mana in every game, and they fit in really well, not only killing whatever is left but regaining my life.
All in all, I ended up happy with this set:
Creatures
4 Spectral Lynx
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Descendant of Kiyomaro
4 Ravenous Rats
2 Tombstalker
Spells
4 Duress
3 Wrench Mind
4 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Mortify
3 Vindicate
4 Death Grasp
Lands
12 swamps
6 plains
4 tainted field
Getting Tombstalker as soon as 4th turn, due to discard spells, was really nice . I really need to get my hands on those vindicates somehow, they're sooo good
I might do some more tweaking in a few days, trying to fit in Jitte / sword of fire and ice or even maybe some infests, but I'll test this one for a bit longer now |
how did those death grasps sneak back in ? |
haha don't hit me kfcman sir, Its just testing ! I'll put in 4 chainers edict later to replace them 
I find that discarding + killing everything he still manages to get on board is the key  .. Then its just attack and wait! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bl1zzard
Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 19
|
| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Manveru wrote: | | SaTiVa wrote: | | Manveru wrote: | | My opponent can only remove it if he has a lucky draw, because he almost never has any cards in hand. Arena gives me a good enough chance to get multiple Bridges. So I sit back and let Rack eat him. Yum. Deserts help too |
well an opponent who isnt retarded will just hold 3 cards in hand until 1 u keep a card in hand b/c u rip 2 x land off ur arena or he draws an answer... also 1 card is enough for gobbies to eat u alive because 2x(1/1) gobbies + 2 pile drivvers get by for an extrodinay 16 dmg |
No he won't be able to hold any cards in hand because I'll discard them. Unless I misunderstood what you meant. And yes you're right about piledrivers and stuff like drawing double lands with arena, it can happen. Many things can, I'm not saying I always win or something It's just that I find this deck fun to play and I'm always looking for improvements.
@up
It looks really good. Discard with 4 Mortify and 3 Vindicate is like.. ouch. |
In time, I hope It'll be 3 mortify and 4 vindicate's |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
