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noob question


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Rulings
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nightxmare



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:09 pm    Post subject: noob question Reply with quote

OK, I've been playing magic for about 9 months and this is how I was taught and never questioned it. I was playing someone else the other day and they said it was wrong. Here's the situation:

1. I'm playing my GR aggro deck, and I decide to attack my opponent with a 3/3.
2. My opponent decides to defend with a 3/3.
3. In response to this I decide to flame javelin my opponent's 3/3

Now I was under the impression that my flame javelin would kill my opponents 3/3, thus allowing mine to stroll through for 3. I was also under the impression that after my flame javelin was played, there would be no time for another blocker to be assigned.
Would this play be correct or would I have to burn before blockers are declared?
Thanks.
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Hank333



Joined: 23 Oct 2006
Posts: 309
Location: San Antoni

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your blocker will be considered blocked. I would assume you did not flame javilin his guy with damage on the stack, so your guy lives. You really need to kill his guy befor the "decleares blocker step" otherwise your guy is blocked. Its like you attack with a guy, he blocks, you make your guy flying will NOT work for the same reason.
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OldBear



Joined: 12 Apr 2005
Posts: 1840

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you do have to burn before declare blockers.
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SaTiVa
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 289

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unless ur guy has trample if it is blocked then all blockers are removed b4 the combat damage step it will not assign and thus not deal any combat dmg.
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Bushviper



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 281

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if the creature has trample it would still deal no damage. The javlin will kill his opponent's creature before or after damage has been put on the stack. Thus, if its before, it will deal no damage because the blocker is now gone. If it is after damage, then the blocker still absorbs the 3 damage and no damage gets through.
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jazzbat



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe Sativa is correct. If the blocker is destroyed before combat damage is assigned, an attacking creature with trample will first assign damage up to lethal damage to the blocking creature (which does not exist and is therefore 0) and then assigns all remaining damage (3) to the defending player.
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bl0t



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To achieve your effect, you can burn before blockers are declared. Then, your creature will waltz through, assuming your opponent controls no other creatures.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Thu May 01, 2008 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once your creature has a blocker it is 'blocked'. Removing the blocker does not change this. You will not deal any damage to the defending player.

Trample works just as well if all blockers are removed. If all blockers are removed before combat damage is assigned, you can assign all damage to the defending player, because there is no creature you have to assign damage to.
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nightxmare



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great. Thanks for the help everybody. Smile
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Drizzs



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your ever unsure about anything you've been taught i suggest you try goin to an FNM and checking out how it goes and ask questions to the players.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drizzs wrote:
If your ever unsure about anything you've been taught i suggest you try goin to an FNM and checking out how it goes and ask questions to the players.

FNM's are notorious for bad rulings and odd houserules.

Yes, you could get a great judge or rules advisor that teaches you everything. You could also get a judge or rules advisor that still thinks the stack resolves in 'batches' and still plays by the old legend rule since 'that makes more sense'.
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ya. hardtrack is soo right on this.

friend of mine got some horrible ruling with a myojin....somehow the judge was convinced that killing a myojin with its "remove a counter" ability on the stack removed the ability...twas vs this jerk off who was a complete ass hole about it too...

FNM sucks...
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have never had trouble with bad ruling in FNMs. If I have a point of view and all the others can not come up with a rule that makes more sense, or can refute it, we play by my rules until next week. By then the correct ruling should be available. The same goes if my point of view is overruled by others, of course.
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thedarkness



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 580

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 4:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never had problems with bad rulings at FNM because our judge was competent. Razz He could easily have been a j3, but his logic for not being one was flawless: he didn't want the workload. xD
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nightxmare



Joined: 28 Apr 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a follow up to this, if someone attacks me with a boggart ram-gang say and I decide not to decare blokers but to flame javelin it instead does its damage still go to me or does it not asign damage? or what if I decide to tap a thundersong trumpeter to stop it attacking(or simarlaly a puppeteer)? Does the tap/burn need to happen before the attack is declared?
Thanks again.
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