Goyf

assman604 · Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 15

Ok, I'm almost sure that this doesn't work but i still had some doubt - because layer 6 rules are just the nutz

If there are 2 types (land and enchantment) of cards in someone's grave

Goyf is 2/3

then someone plays nameless (+3/-3) on it

the goyf should live , right? since by the time the namless resolves - it would be 4/5 ---> 7/2

Is that right?

TugaChampion · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 305

That's right.

Jacois · Joined: 05 Sep 2004 Posts: 392

7/2, yes, correct.

assman604 · Joined: 21 Jan 2008 Posts: 15

A level 6 judge in the recent GP event have ruled over it.

Stating that because of the some complicated layer 6 rules - the goyf should die by SBE before the it gets the boost from nameless...

I'm quite confused

TugaChampion · Joined: 26 Jan 2006 Posts: 305

Either the report was wrong, the judge was stupid or high or most likely the goyf was 0/1 becoming 2/3 and than 5/0.

gypsy · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 417

theres no such thing as a level 6 judge and if it was a ruling for u u can ask for an appeal

thedarkness · Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 447

Here's how it goes down.

When a spell is cast (let's say Nameless Inversion), and it resolves (all its targets are still legal, etc, etc), a few things happen in a specific order BEFORE state-based effects are checked. Creatures only die from having 0 toughness (or taking lethal damage, or anything else) AFTER state-based effects are checked and the requirements for them to die are met (usually lethal damage or 0 toughness).

First, the spell's effects are applied. Then, the spell goes to the graveyard. Then, state-based effects are checked.

However, in the case of Tarmogoyf, whose ability is what is called a "characteristic-setting ability," something else is thrown into the mix. Characteristic-setting abilities are static (always in effect, even when not in play in the case of power and toughness setting ability), and are applied and altered IMMEDIATELY when something that effects their conditions happens or changes. They do NOT change when state-based effects are checked.

In other words, since the Nameless Inversion is put into the graveyard before state-based effects are checked, and the Tarmogoyf gets +2/+2 from its being there before state-based effects are checked, and whether or not it dies from having 0 toughness is checked AFTER state-based effects are checked, it lives as long as at least one non-instant non-tribal spell is in a graveyard with the inversion for the duration of the inversion's effect (until end of turn).

LoneWulf · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 138

coolcreep · Joined: 18 Feb 2006 Posts: 233

Because of this, there is a neat trick. You attack with goyf as a 4/5, then you make 4 manas with your 2 gemhide slivers (or vesuvan shapeshifter copying gemhide), then play 2 nameless inversions, making him 12/1, and bam! 12 damage. pretty awesome if you ask me.

Batibot23 · Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 31

Can Hardtrack confirm on this?

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 234

See what you did coolcreep? That's why you shouldn't talk out of your ass.

What coolcreep said is a lot of crap, don't believe anything he says.

Batibot23 · Joined: 14 Dec 2006 Posts: 31

I know what coolcreep said was crap. What I want to be confirmed is what thedarkness said? Side-question. I've got shield of the oversoul that makes my green creature indestructible. If my opponent plays damnation. It won't be destroyed right even if it's global?

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 234

Yes, what thedarkness said was right.

Something that is indestructible can't be destroyed. No matter how or why it would be destroyed. Global or not.