EXT BG Planeswalkers Dcloud SERIOUS! help please

just2fierce · Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 36

I tend to agree with the other guys....Genesis and witness would be money......Don't think you need the top...It would be very easy to splash white in for confinement and eternal Dragon/Exalted Angel play Heirarch instead of Baloth with Living wish Main. Play therapy instead of Thoughtseize. 2 Cranial for the enslave and 1 of the therapy slots

You can call me crazy if you want to but I wouldn't play Goyf....that in mind here's my take on what to play but a very rough draft......

2 Cranial Extraction
3 Death Cloud
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
3 Living Wish
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Profane Command

3 Loxodon Heirarch
3 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Exalted Angel
4 Sakura Tribe Eldar
3 Garruk
3 Liliana

3 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Temple Garden
2 Godless Shrine
2 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Urborg
1 Plains

SB

3 Leyline of the Void
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Exalted Angel
1 Genesis
2 Bosejui
2 Extirpate
2 Solitary Confinement
1 Loxodon Heirarch
1 Withered Wretch

wisdomhappy · Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 16

I can't play 3 colors, the magic gods directly forbid it. 3 colors leads to inconsistency for me, and nothing white is needed. so your plan with the therapy/witness is to hope to draw both, or else just never flash therepy till you have a gurrik out anyway? baloth+gurrik is money also, hierch lacks that game winning synergy of dropping a baloth when you have 2 or 3 beasts from gurrik. I appreciate it, the help and your list is not bad, it is just too random for me. I hate 2 ofs and if I have a vess out ima grab a cloud or a gurrik or a baloth. also, I think the list you provided isnt consistant vs fast agro, dredge or blue-based land go decks.

In theory Its better to have a larger 3 colored card pool, but in practicality, the magus of the moon and flow make it not worth wanting so many duel lands. let alone the kind of damage you would incur every single game as you try to get the BBBWWGG manabase you need. I agree witness/therapy is SOLID AS HELL, but i think such slow control is too slow vs quick decks and the 2 therapy is a poor replacement for 4 throughtsieze vs control and combo. once I have the kind of control to have a vess out, seach for genesis, then start the genisis lock, a large dethcloud with any planeswalkers out is better than trizy one-ofs that can just get dealt with. Thanks for the effort, but the list with white is strictly worse against every tir one matchup. also, cutting the top is very foolish, not onlky is top petty much insane with 11 maindeck shuffles, it makes the vess ability of putting them on top 10X better. you know what is on top and it costs you 0 mana to get it in your hand

Today, I lsot the trial to dredge,a dn I thought that was a little insane with 3 extirpate 4 leyline side, but I added in some jailers too. The maindeck is pretty consistent, I hate to take cards out of it when I side, so I reserve side board slots for bad match ups.

of my last 7 trial games, I lost to the tarmofinity that won the trial, but only due to a misclick DQ. todays trial I lost to dredge with a mull to 0. game 2 my 7 6 and 5 card hands had ZERO lands OR leylines. I almsot kept my 4 land hand cuz it had one forest, but it was so bad I had to keep mulling looking for a leyline. I cut some cards I never ave sided in, and made my dredge matchup seeminly unloseable. I have amazing matchups vs quick agro, dredge, goblins, blue, combo and rock. really the only deck I havent had proper testing against is the RW deck with cepters. think I need to sprry about that deck enough to change the list? seems like discard will keep me from early cepters, and side, extirpates and the duress help.

pretty much I am decidint if I really need 10 slots vs anti-dredge and if not, what else would I have in the side for if not blue, combo or argro? I could cut the jailers for the 4th extirpate and have 2 open slots, but what? krosan grip maybe for agaisnt cepters/shackles for when I dont have a deed out?

wisdomhappy · Joined: 24 Oct 2007 Posts: 16

I can't play 3 colors; the magic gods directly forbid it. I’m just too unlucky I guess. 3 colors leads to inconsistency for me, and nothing white is even needed. So tell me, is your plan with the therapy/witness is to hope to draw both, or else just never flash therapy till your in a position to have extra good creatures to sac? baloth+gurrik is money also, heirch lacks that game winning synergy of dropping a baloth when you have 2 or 3 beasts from gurrik. I appreciate it, the help and your list is not bad, it is just too random for me. I hate 2-ofs’ and, if I have a Vess out Im’a grab a cloud or a gurrik or a baloth. also, I think the list you provided isn’t consistent vs fast agro, dredge or blue-based land go decks.

In theory its better to have a larger 3 colored card pool, but in practicality, the magus of the moon and flow make it not worth wanting so many duel lands. let alone the kind of damage you would incur every single game as you try to get the BBBWWGG manabase you need. I agree witness/therapy is SOLID AS HELL, but i think such slow control is too slow vs quick decks and the 2 therapy is a poor replacement for 4 throughtsieze vs control and combo. once I have the kind of control to have a vess out, search for genesis, then start the genesis lock, a large dethcloud with any planeswalkers out is better than tricky one-ofs that can just get dealt with. Thanks for the effort, but the list with white is strictly worse against every tir-one match up. Also, cutting the top is very foolish, not only is top petty much insane with 11 main deck shuffles, it makes the vess ability of putting them on top 10X better. You know what is on top and it costs you 0 mana to get it in your hand. ? as for the one-of profane command, I had that in the beginning, but never in like 20 games got it over a cloud., although profane command does seem to be good in this deck

Today, I lost the trial to dredge, and I thought that was a little insane with 3 extirpate 4 leyline side, but I added in some jailers too due to the loss. The maindeck is pretty consistent, I hate to take cards out of it when I side, so I reserve side board slots for bad match ups.

Of my last 7 trial games, I lost to the tarmofinity that won the trial, but only due to a turn 1 enforcer on the play and g2 a misclick DQ. today’s trial I lost to dredge with a mull to 0 game 2. my 7, 6 and 5 card hands had ZERO lands OR leylines. I almost kept my 4 land hand cuz it had one forest, but it was so bad I had to keep mulling looking for a leyline. I cut some cards I never have sided in, and made my dredge matchup seemingly unloseable. I have amazing matchups vs quick agro, dredge, goblins, blue, combo and rock. Really the only deck I haven’t had proper testing against is the RW deck with scepters. Think I need to worry about that deck enough to change the list? Seems like discard will keep me from early scepters, and side; extirpates and the duress help.

Pretty much I am deciding if I really need 10 slots vs dredge and if not, what else would I have in the side for if not blue, combo or agro? I could cut the jailers for the 4th extirpate and have 2 open slots, but what for what? krosan grip? maybe for against scepters/shackles for when I dont have a deed out?

Any advise would help, anyone have any words for me before I drvive 8 hours to Detroit on the fifth

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

GB Death Cloud
1st - wisdomhappy
Main Deck
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Tainted Wood
2 Forest
3 Overgrown Tomb
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Golgari Rot Farm
4 Swamp
3 Ravenous Baloth
3 Liliana Vess
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Smother
3 Duress
3 Death Cloud
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Thoughtseize
4 Pernicious Deed

Sideboard
3 Damnation
3 Withered Wretch
2 Haunting Echoes
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Smother
1 Duress

I went undefeated today. I never saw dredge but was so ready for it. I never borded in echos, can anyone think of a better anti-rock/mirror/doran card? I really like infest, I may just play that, to own up hippies and birds ad trolls.

any thoughts anyone? My only problem with this deck is that it is so hard to play. naming the wrong card with duress or thoughtsieze can cost you big. I'd liek to get some more testing vs monoblue in is about all

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 452

The last part makes no fucking sense. Have you been playing the deck at all? Duress and thoughtseize don't require cards to be named.

Also, wretches are less than great against dredge. I'd rather risk them having a darkblast in their hand with jailer than have them just kill my wretch before I can activate it enough times to screw them over.

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

I mean turn one when you have to chose between Cspell, Goyf, confidant or C balance. or Flames, gias might or goyf. it is a bad idea to run out of cards in your own hand. something like saving a duress all game for clearing the way for the turn 7 DC for 5 is often the win. I would imagine people who didint personally make this deck would play it much different than I would. I also changed Wretches to extirpates possibly.

dv8r · Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 148

....right, so you're on hiatus for exams but still had time to come on and win a trial?

like I said before Clanatoff, I like the deck quite a bit, and I've done a lot of testing with it irl. However, I'm not really willing to speak any more about it on these forums in the interests of privacy (as I might actually play this deck in ptqs this season because it's kinda fun and suits my timmy/spike playstyle).

IM me your email, or talk on mirc sometime (my nick is dv8r)? A bit to ask about matchups etc. Have a few decent suggestions for md changes, and a couple for sb.

aceben3 · Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 45

so idk if anyone is still checking this thread, but I really like this deck, except I think I want like 3 Cranial Extractions SB...they are really good in the Tron matchup (name Mindslaver) and mirror (name Death Cloud)...I don't think Plow Under or Genesis are needed. Against any control deck, your plan is to just resolve some planeswalkers (which is why you do need to play 7) then a big Death Cloud. After that they can't Shackles your guys, etc. I don't think the current build has enough creatures to play Cabal Therapy unless you play Eternal Witness as well, but I just don't think there's room.

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

m-l people disappoint me. You can predict the meta because everyone just nettdecks the lists that won the day before. 7 people playing my death cloud list; wow im flattered but think how much less motivated I am to spend the time to make another cool deck like that. I spent so long testing and tuning just to have the list stolen and exploited. I guess I dont "own" the list but everyone please if asked about it. It was made by Tyler Clatanoff. Top 8 in fargo and first in a trial is where you saw the list first. the deck is really hard to play flawlessly, and little things always seem to be the difference. please just give me credit for my work and contributions. and please for the love of god I beg all of you just to play something different at midwest ptq's. I'm going to nebraska, minnesota wisconsin and Iowa. if I drive 8 hours to get beaten by my own deck I'll probably just not want to play magic anymore. don't rape one of someone's main joys and passions just because you would rather play cloud over doran or flow or something.

Sorry to rant, If you already bought the cards or have put in too much testing to go back thgen lets just work together on this. my email is clata002@umn.edu.

I like the idea of extractions actually, thtanks a lot. is good vs ideal too. what to name vs Storm? tendrils? but they have wish so I dunno, maybe even cabal ritual?

anyone wanna help a brother out and say changes and other advise? prob e-mail it to me.

KRISIS · Joined: 23 Nov 2005 Posts: 9

I hope you have to play mirror matches every single event.

You are seriously the stupidest player I have ever seen. I walk up to watch your 4th round match in Fargo with four minutes to go, and you spend three of that using Top. The best part is that it's two Planeswalkers and a Deed, and your opponent has a needle on deed and Teeg in play. You had to tank for three minutes so that you could deliberate on which blank you wanted to draw?

I mean honestly, you are the stone dumbest. Keep crying about how the bad people are stealing your deck. Maybe someday you'll get good enough to win a PTQ, but as long as you're acting like a little girl, that is pretty unlikely.

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 469

Cranial Extraction is good. Vs. Combo the best thing to name is the appropriate Wish (Burning for Ideal and TEPS, Cunning for Heartbeat). Some versions don't even main deck their kill card, for example some versions of Heartbeat don't even have the Brain Freeze in the main, so that's gg right there sometimes.

Extracting Ideal for Form of the Dragon is pretty awesome.

aceben3 · Joined: 28 Oct 2006 Posts: 45

I have 3 Extractions SB, name:
vs Ideal, Form of the Dragon
vs Heartbeat, Mind's Desire (then tutor for deed to stop Hunting Pack)
vs Teps, Burning Wish then Mind's Desire
vs Tron, Mindslaver then Sundering Titan (if it comes to that)
I got 2nd in the trial today so you can see my list there.