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SoyCool
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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 Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: A deck idea |
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Even the odds + windbrisk heights + Restore balance = can you make it work?
Here's the idea: a control deck that plays a game similar to balancing 'tings, dealing with control, aggro and more tempo oriented decks, running a tight mana base (and flagstones). Run a simple win-con for beats(paladin-envec might do it), support it with versatile cards (dawn charm perhaps - stall and regeneration), win.
Have at it.
EDIT:
Here's my list, so far played 1 game, going 1-0 (he disconnected after G1)
//NAME: Untitled Deck
4 Windbrisk Heights
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 New Benalia
13 Plains
4 Dawn Charm
4 Wrath of God
3 Crib Swap
4 Restore Balance
4 Even the Odds
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Celestial Crusader/Magus of the tabernacle
4 Paladin en-Vec
4 Martyr of Sands
SB: 4 Mana tithe
SB: 4 Jotun Grunt
SB: 4 Condemn/Sunlance
SB: 3 Return to Dust
Game: T1 Balance, he plays goyf, static game, I play En-vec and beat, T6 restore balance at 3 lands (holding land in hand) we both have 7 cards, he sacs 3 lands after he uses ronom on my en-vec - regenerate with dawn charm. I swing, he blocks with treetop, remove it with crib swap. He begins to swing with his goyf at 4, gets me down to 9 life (i have plenty of removal in hand, no worries), I use even the odds when he swings with the token given and goyf, next turn i use the windbrisk i played the turn before to pull out a martyr. He disconnects.
My hand: O-ring, O-ring, O-ring, Celestial crusader, Dawn charm, Plains, Flagstones.
Last edited by SoyCool on Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Vedrfolner
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2145
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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So the deck idea is to play Restore Balance in order to get his creature count down to yours (0 or 1), then play a Even the Odds, which you use to launch a Windbrisk Heights card for free... which is either Dawn Charm, Wrath of God, Crib Swap, Even the Odds, Loxodon Warhammer, Celestial Crusader, Paladin en-Vec or Martyr of Sands???
Why would you want to play any of those cards for free?
Why would you play Even the Odds just to make sure you could play any of those cards for free?
Why would you play Restore Balance in order to play Even the Odds so you can play any of those card for free?
I need to know those questions before I can further comment on your deck idea. |
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SoyCool
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Vedrfolner wrote: | So the deck idea is to play Restore Balance in order to get his creature count down to yours (0 or 1), then play a Even the Odds, which you use to launch a Windbrisk Heights card for free... which is either Dawn Charm, Wrath of God, Crib Swap, Even the Odds, Loxodon Warhammer, Celestial Crusader, Paladin en-Vec or Martyr of Sands???
Why would you want to play any of those cards for free?
Why would you play Even the Odds just to make sure you could play any of those cards for free?
Why would you play Restore Balance in order to play Even the Odds so you can play any of those card for free?
I need to know those questions before I can further comment on your deck idea. |
Your order is incorrect.
Opponent: Plays creature/s
Me: Plays even the odds, next turn, attack, play balance or another useful card from windbrisk.
OR
Me: Play restore balance
Opponent: Play nothing, rest on fewer lands and fewer creatures
Me: Restore balance resolves, I play some beats and kill blockers w/ all the removal in the deck.
If all goes well.
OR
Play martyr, en-vec, even the odds, celestial crusader, swing.
Windbrisk is for restore balance, the rest are in for stall until getting a win condition against a fairly exhausted opponent, playing conservatively after seeing a restore balance.
It's still all prototype, there's still more to pull off w/ a flipped free card, hell, even an akroma can work.
Windbrisk digs, thats why its good.
All of this is to ensure you can play a few lands and control the game by forcing the opponent to play your style. |
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Vedrfolner
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2145
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| Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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1. Even with Martyr, Wrath and Crib Swap, a Turn 1 suspended Restore Balance could be too little too late if your opponent decides to race. And if it does resolve, an opponent who tried to race will probably have very few or no cards in hand - in that case, you will lose your hand as well.
Then consider what happens if you don't draw Restore Balance turn 1, especially when you can't play it with Windbrisk Heights - it has no casting cost... there is nothing to pay.
2. If opponent have a counterspell or ten, your deck is entirely helpless.
3. All this is not so bad, really. It is good defense. The problem arise when you drop your win conditions. They are small, have no evasion and they are few.
Your deck idea(s) are ambitious and optimistic. That is good. Maybe I am not the right person to try to help out. We are obviously two completely different player personae (Timmy/Johnny/Spike) of completely different colour spectra (black/blue/green/red/white).
If I can't beat the game into the pattern I desire, I go get a bigger club. How the club looks does not matter, but I will use it my own way. Power over Finesse any time, at any cost. Game plan over options. Proactiveness over answers. The goal is inevitability, not surprise. Efficiency over combinations and synergy.
If none of the above resonates with you, just go on developing your deck idea. It will bring you more joy than scrapping it for a better one. |
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SoyCool
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Vedrfolner wrote: | 1. Even with Martyr, Wrath and Crib Swap, a Turn 1 suspended Restore Balance could be too little too late if your opponent decides to race. And if it does resolve, an opponent who tried to race will probably have very few or no cards in hand - in that case, you will lose your hand as well.
Then consider what happens if you don't draw Restore Balance turn 1, especially when you can't play it with Windbrisk Heights - it has no casting cost... there is nothing to pay.
2. If opponent have a counterspell or ten, your deck is entirely helpless.
3. All this is not so bad, really. It is good defense. The problem arise when you drop your win conditions. They are small, have no evasion and they are few.
Your deck idea(s) are ambitious and optimistic. That is good. Maybe I am not the right person to try to help out. We are obviously two completely different player personae (Timmy/Johnny/Spike) of completely different colour spectra (black/blue/green/red/white).
If I can't beat the game into the pattern I desire, I go get a bigger club. How the club looks does not matter, but I will use it my own way. Power over Finesse any time, at any cost. Game plan over options. Proactiveness over answers. The goal is inevitability, not surprise. Efficiency over combinations and synergy.
If none of the above resonates with you, just go on developing your deck idea. It will bring you more joy than scrapping it for a better one. |
I deff catch your drift. I can relate on several points, and others not. Combinations and synergy = my strategy. A deck that coalesces into something greater is a deck you play and never feel a lost game with.
The win-cons, I understand, are few and far in between, but in the current meta there are no permanent ways to deal with any, should they resolve (paladin en-vec). No shriekmaw, no eyeblights, no burn whatsoever. Ace. |
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Sandro
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| O-ring, cryptic command+counter, damnation, and wrath are just the obvious cards I think of that deal with Paladin. I'm sure there's atleast twice as many. Akroma would make a better windbrisk height creature. And I don't really understand the deck purpose. It seems like the restore balance is a waste. |
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SoyCool
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Sandro wrote: | | O-ring, cryptic command+counter, damnation, and wrath are just the obvious cards I think of that deal with Paladin. I'm sure there's atleast twice as many. Akroma would make a better windbrisk height creature. And I don't really understand the deck purpose. It seems like the restore balance is a waste. |
Restore balance is all around win:
1. It blows up opponents lands if he's stocking up his base
2. It forces discard
3. It kills opponents army
4. For WW
With tabernacle is makes it that harder to keep a formidable army and makes it easier for any creature to go to town with a harmer.
Thorn of amethyst vs. control can be used, even though it slows slightly the initial own plan - counters will be that more difficult to cast, and creatures easier to play.
The goal is to play on a small base and control the game through various tech, attacking the opponents hand, mana and creatures ftw. |
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cyruseli
Joined: 07 Mar 2007
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Even the Odds with Restore Balance seems really off to me, maybe I don't understand it right. To me, Even the Odds is supposed to turn their advantage into your advantage, and so is Restore Balance. The problem is if you play one off of the other (Balance off of Even the Odds) then you are actually in the better situation when the Balance goes off (more, yet worse, creatures).
Explain to me if this is wrong, but it just doesn't add up to me. |
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SoyCool
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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| cyruseli wrote: | Even the Odds with Restore Balance seems really off to me, maybe I don't understand it right. To me, Even the Odds is supposed to turn their advantage into your advantage, and so is Restore Balance. The problem is if you play one off of the other (Balance off of Even the Odds) then you are actually in the better situation when the Balance goes off (more, yet worse, creatures).
Explain to me if this is wrong, but it just doesn't add up to me. |
Here's how it goes:
Opponent: Creatures, attack, EOT, even the odds
Me: Attack with creatures, some may die, but you just need an attack to flip Windbrisk for balance. In which case, you should have less lands, and less creatures.
From there, you simply crib swap, oblivion ring, tabernacle and wrath of god away the rest of their threats.
I'm considering magus of the moat and favor the mighty - most aggro will fold cold.
Even the odds is to tick windbrisk, and if all else fails, I can equip a loxodon warhammer to one of the tokens.
You'll have to at least play it a couple of times to find all the synergy. |
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IberianWolf
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 153
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| Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| SoyCool wrote: | | cyruseli wrote: | Even the Odds with Restore Balance seems really off to me, maybe I don't understand it right. To me, Even the Odds is supposed to turn their advantage into your advantage, and so is Restore Balance. The problem is if you play one off of the other (Balance off of Even the Odds) then you are actually in the better situation when the Balance goes off (more, yet worse, creatures).
Explain to me if this is wrong, but it just doesn't add up to me. |
Here's how it goes:
Opponent: Creatures, attack, EOT, even the odds
Me: Attack with creatures, some may die, but you just need an attack to flip Windbrisk for balance. In which case, you should have less lands, and less creatures.
From there, you simply crib swap, oblivion ring, tabernacle and wrath of god away the rest of their threats.
I'm considering magus of the moat and favor the mighty - most aggro will fold cold.
Even the odds is to tick windbrisk, and if all else fails, I can equip a loxodon warhammer to one of the tokens.
You'll have to at least play it a couple of times to find all the synergy. |
IF you have less creatures. they're just 1/1's. also, if an opponent sees a restore balance coming, they will prepare for it. it's an ambitious idea, but too conditional. |
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Vedrfolner
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2145
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| again, you can't play Restore Balance with Windbrisk Heights. It has no casting cost and can only be suspended. Cards without casting cost cannot be played, even if you get to play it for free. |
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SoyCool
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Vedrfolner wrote: | | again, you can't play Restore Balance with Windbrisk Heights. It has no casting cost and can only be suspended. Cards without casting cost cannot be played, even if you get to play it for free. |
That's the least of my worries, i've already checked w/ this by the judges |
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Vedrfolner
Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2145
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| SoyCool wrote: | | Vedrfolner wrote: | | again, you can't play Restore Balance with Windbrisk Heights. It has no casting cost and can only be suspended. Cards without casting cost cannot be played, even if you get to play it for free. |
That's the least of my worries, i've already checked w/ this by the judges |
You're right. |
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