Need Help with this Deck for PTQ

lotus007 · Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 5

I am trying to run this variation on dredge, but through testing and testing and testing, I really need a way to make sure that I can consistently win turn 2-3.

The deck is as follow

4 Golgari Grave Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Putrid Imp
1 Golgari Thug
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Narcomoeba
2 Ichorid

4 Breakthrough
4 Careful Study
3 Tolarian Winds
4 Dread Return
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
3 Tarnished Citadel
3 Underground River
3 Cephalid Coliseum

Sideboard

2 Pithing Needle
4 Chain of Vapor
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Stifle
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
1 Cabal Therapy

Any Suggestions as to make this deck better are strongle appreciated. If anyone else needs help or has a question, please feel free to ask me. Notice, I am trying not to spend a rediculous amount of money on the deck, but please make the suggestions anyway, and maybe I can sucker my friends into lending me some of the cards. THANKS

Hermes · Joined: 17 May 2007 Posts: 1

Well for starters imo of course...i would highly recommend Darkblast in the maindeck...atleast 2 possibly 3....they're simply great...providing you with another dredge card and dealing with some of your biggest problems ex:mogg fanatic, ste, gaddock teeg, also alot of decks truly depend on dark confidant and the ability to destory it is great. theres also simple but over looked little tricks you can do with it, such as killing your own narcomoeba or ichorid or putrid imp(if not at thresh for some reason) while the remove from game triggers are on the stack from something going to the grave and hitting your bridges...next i would add in the 3rd cabal therapy over the 3rd tolarian winds...i understand going off quickly...but i wouldnt try for it over the expense of a card like therapy...its just nuts. and the last thing i would recommend would be fixing your manabase(fetch & duals) but i understand budget restraints...but if your able to get them i would try to...it may not seem like a big deal but in the end a few cards thinned makes a big difference...anyways thats my outlook i hope its somewhat helpful

NahHolmes · Joined: 13 Jan 2005 Posts: 583

There are maybe 500 decklists for decks like this online which are way better then this one for a variety of reasons, too many to name. Dig through the site or google it.

Black_Dog · Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 161

I love Ichorid. I loooooooooove it. But in 1.5.

Now i hate nacro-bridge. haaaaaaaaate it. In all formats.

Why? cause it's fragile and easy to wreck.

Basically,

I'd suggest losing 2-3 Bridges and 3 Dread Returns...And constructing your deck where it can still be competitive once someone drops a Leyline or a Tormod's on you.

After that run 3 or 4 Cabal Therapy's. They're worth far more than so many Dread Returns.

2 ichorids? I'd make it at least 3

And Hermes is right about Darkblast. MD at least 1 and have more in the SB. Also what about Ray of Revelation and Riftstone Portals?

I know it's not of the net-decking sort but even running 1 Ancient Grudge/Ray of Revelation/Riftstone Portal MD isn't a bad idea.

Lastly, maybe I'm a bit oldschool with this, but Laq Champion has always been my favorite card to Dread Return. Why? Cause if theirs some reason you can't attack or they can't take damage, then they at least lose life. I'd add him in too. You can hard cast him.

My play style is obv different but I'd rather aim for a consistent kill/deck than one that hits hard but is easy to shut down.

lennin · Guest

people who think this is easy to shut down are going to lose to it you need a good amount of hate or well timed hate at least, and riftstone/ray/grudge isnt good if people are playing leyline and jailer which are the hate cards that affect it, u need needles and chains, need at least 3 ichorid, 3 dread return, and md darkblast has been playing amazing for me, kills so much stuff. im also a huge fan of playing sundering titan sb to blow up lots of land vs decks that kill bridge easily like doran or rg, i also play 1 ancestors chosen sb.

Black_Dog · Joined: 29 Sep 2006 Posts: 161

well i disagree about shutting it down (though I don't play ext but am becoming more familiar with the format and I thought running 4 Leylines or 4 of any grave hate was a standard like in Legacy). Sides, Mogg Fanatic ruins Bridges.

but your right about Chain of Vapor and Sundering Titan.

But he's running 8 lands that tap for any color so I think a MD'd Ray and Grudge aren't a bad idea. I mean it depends on the Meta where he's going.

Test test test test.

lotus007 · Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 5

Thanks for all of the wonderful suggestions, I will make some changes, and test some more, but I will also put the updated build here so you can see if it works. I really never thought of those possibilities. THANKS

lotus007 · Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 5

Qty ED Name Cost Type Rarity Color
4 TSB Gemstone Mine Land R Lnd
4 8E City of Brass Land R Lnd
4 OD Cephalid Coliseum Land U Lnd
3 IA Underground River Land R Lnd
1 JU Riftstone Portal Land U Lnd
//\\
// Creatures
4 FUT Narcomoeba 1U Creature - Illusion U U
4 RAV Stinkweed Imp 2B Creature - Imp C B
1 RAV Flame-Kin Zealot 1RRW Creature - Elemental Berserker U Gld
4 RAV Golgari Grave-Troll 4G Creature - Skeleton Troll R G
3 TO Ichorid 3B Creature - Horror R B
4 TO Putrid Imp B Creature - Zombie Imp C B
1 TO Cephalid Sage 3U Creature - Cephalid U U
1 TSB Akroma, Angel of Wrath 5WWW Legendary Creature - Angel R W
1 JU Ancestor's Chosen 5WW Creature - Cleric U W
1 TO Laquatus's Champion 4BB Creature - Nightmare Horror R B
1 TSP Bogardan Hellkite 6RR Creature - Dragon R R
1 DS Sundering Titan 8 Artifact Creature R Art
//\\
// Spells
3 OD Careful Study U Sorcery C U
3 TSP Dread Return 2BB Sorcery U B
2 FUT Bridge from Below BBB Enchantment R B
3 TO Breakthrough XU Sorcery U U
3 JU Cabal Therapy B Sorcery U B
1 7E Tolarian Winds 1U Instant C U
1 TSP Ancient Grudge 1R Instant C R
1 JU Ray of Revelation 1W Instant C W
1 RAV Darkblast B Instant U B
//\\
// Sideboard
0 GP Leyline of the Void 2BB Enchantment R B
0 ON Chain of Vapor U Instant U U
0 10E Pithing Needle 1 Artifact R Art
0 TSP Ancient Grudge 1R Instant C R
0 JU Ray of Revelation 1W Instant C W
0 RAV Darkblast B Instant U B
0 DS Sundering Titan 8 Artifact Creature R Art

Build as of now, what do you think?

Hank333 · Joined: 23 Oct 2006 Posts: 207 Location: San Antoni

Don't cut Breakthrough. Its amazing in the deck. Don't Cut careful study for the same reasons.
I understand people like the targets for dread return, but 6 is too many. 2 or 3 at most.
I don't play dredge much, but cutting down to 2 bridges? what? i don't get it. I like the turn 2-3 kill's, they are the best. relying on akroma or sundering titan to get it done just isn't that reliable much of the time.
Cabal Therapys and Darkblast are both very strong in the deck and are needed.
Consider the things that threaten you, do you need both ray of revelation and ancient grudge main deck? what are the targets you NEED to kill, and think about how often you will see them. Remeber that is what SB's are for. Oh, and theres chain of vapor too, those 3 all play the same role.

lennin · Guest

ray and grudge are bad u need 4 bridges in your deck you need 4 breakthroughs and hellkite is bad u dont need all those targets the best return targets are 1 akroma 1 flame kin and 1 sage

Lunarvoltage · Joined: 27 Apr 2006 Posts: 60

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [OD] Cephalid Coliseum
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Island (4)
4 [RAV] Watery Grave

// Creatures
1 [TO] Cephalid Sage
3 [TO] Ichorid
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
4 [RAV] Golgari Grave-Troll
2 [RAV] Flame-Kin Zealot
2 [RAV] Golgari Thug
4 [FUT] Narcomoeba
4 [RAV] Stinkweed Imp

// Spells
3 [TSP] Dread Return
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
4 [OD] Careful Study
2 [US] Tolarian Winds
4 [TO] Breakthrough
4 [FUT] Bridge from Below

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 4 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [JU] Ancestor's Chosen
SB: 1 [RAV] Darkblast

First of all, stop saying that Mogg Fanatic beats extended dredge. It doesn't. You can still beat him down with Ichorids or Dread Return a Grave-Troll into play. If Fanatic shuts down your Bridges, who cares? Fanatic alone will not be enough. Ever.

When you play dredge, you have to remember that the deck has a billion ways to kill the opponent in addition to the "combo kill". Yesterday I played dredge in a mini and won when I just attacked with Narcomoebas and hardcast Stinkweed Imps. Engineered Explosives shut down the combo kill but I could just reanimate the Zealot and attack for 10 with the fliers. Usually I win with Ichorids and Bridge tokens with Therapies disrupting the opponent. Also, you need more dredge guys than just the Trolls and Imps, I'd run a 3rd Thug if there was something I could take out.

4 Breakthroughs are a must and so are the 4 Careful Studies and Bridge from Belows. If you want to include the reanimate-a-fattie gameplan in your dredge deck, I suggest taking out the 2nd Zealot and putting in an Akroma. I just like having the 2nd Zealot so I have a more reliable turn 2-3 kill against other combo decks. You just _can't_ use more than 1 slot for that plan. The only things you can lose the first game to are Collective Restraint, Trinket Mage for Tormod's Crypt and bad draws. In sideboard you should have answers for the usual hate cards. I prefer running 4 Chain of Vapors (for Leyline) 4 Needles (Crypt) 4 Leylines (opposing dredge decks) and the fourth Therapy (other combo decks) Darkblast (Jailer) Ancestor's Chosen (red decks). I wouldnt run maindeck Darkblast because Thug is simply better in the main (you can feed it to Ichorid and it dredges 1 more) and there aren’t any creatures you really need to kill besides Jailer which no one plays md.

I don’t like the 5-color lands either. The only thing they allow you to do is flashback Ancient Grudge and/or Ray of Revelation. The only things you’ll ever want to Grudge are Cranial Plating and Tormods Crypt and it’s not even that good against them. Plating will rarely be a problem and Grudge isn’t exactly hot against Crypt either. That’s a low asset for the high price of disrupting your primary game plan. (Yes, I remember Engineered Explosives but it’s not really that big of a problem, you can get around it with careful playing). Ray of Revelation is only slightly better as it destroys one of the best cards against you, Collective Restraints. Unless there are _a lot_ of Restraints in your local meta, I wouldnt play Ray either.

That’s it for me. The deck is awesome, it’s powerful and more resilient to hate than most people think. Best of luck in the PTQ’s.

Conkisstador · Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 255

here's some tek. fetchlands are great and round your mana base. makes a difference.

the cool thing about green fetchlands is that u can fetch dryad arbor. abuse it while u can, blocking jailers, bobs, etc.

also it gives u a win condition when they go hate.sb and you'd be surprised how muhc damage they deal and then u ge tonline and punch once and win. at least thats how it plays in eternal formats

lotus007 · Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 5

Qty ED Name Cost Type Rarity Color
// Lands
4 TSB Gemstone Mine Land R Lnd
4 RAV Watery Grave Land - Island Swamp R Lnd
4 OD Cephalid Coliseum Land U Lnd
2 TE Swamp Land C Lnd
2 PT Island Land C Lnd
//\\
// Creatures
1 TO Cephalid Sage 3U Creature - Cephalid U U
3 TO Ichorid 3B Creature - Horror R B
4 RAV Golgari Grave-Troll 4G Creature - Skeleton Troll R G
2 RAV Flame-Kin Zealot 1RRW Creature - Elemental Berserker U Gld
4 TO Putrid Imp B Creature - Zombie Imp C B
4 FUT Narcomoeba 1U Creature - Illusion U U
4 RAV Stinkweed Imp 2B Creature - Imp C B
2 RAV Golgari Thug 1B Creature - Human Warrior U B
//\\
// Spells
3 TSP Dread Return 2BB Sorcery U B
4 OD Careful Study U Sorcery C U
4 TO Breakthrough XU Sorcery U U
2 7E Tolarian Winds 1U Instant C U
4 FUT Bridge from Below BBB Enchantment R B
3 JU Cabal Therapy B Sorcery U B
//\\
// Sideboard
0 JU Cabal Therapy B Sorcery U B
0 10E Pithing Needle 1 Artifact R Art
0 GP Leyline of the Void 2BB Enchantment R B
0 10E Ancestor's Chosen 5WW Creature - Human Cleric U W
0 RAV Darkblast B Instant U B
0 ON Chain of Vapor U Instant U U

The reason why I am running no fetchlands is due to the fact that I do not have them, nor do I feel like spending tons of money on them. I am just working with what I have right now. I hope this is a little better, I know that there will be some concerns about the mana base, but this is what I have to work with at the moment. If I can finds someone to lend me some of the lands then I will run them, but for the mean time, this is what I have. My PTQ is not until January 28th, so any suggestions that you have would be appreciated. I understand that this deck has a lot of hate against it, but I am expecting to see many domain zoo decks, ideal decks, and more or less, countertop. I think that I stand a chance though. THANKS

If you need comments or help with anything, please do not hesitate to ask for my opinion.

lotus007 · Joined: 17 Oct 2007 Posts: 5

Here is the decklist that I now plan on taking to the PTQ. I looked online and tested for hours on end, and figured that this is probably as good as it will get. Thank you all for your help. Here is the list.

Qty ED Name Cost Type Rarity Color
// Lands
2 TE Swamp Land C Lnd
2 PT Island Land C Lnd
4 TSB Gemstone Mine Land R Lnd
3 RAV Watery Grave Land - Island Swamp R Lnd
4 OD Cephalid Coliseum Land U Lnd
//\\
// Creatures
1 RAV Golgari Thug 1B Creature - Human Warrior U B
4 RAV Golgari Grave-Troll 4G Creature - Skeleton Troll R G
3 TO Ichorid 3B Creature - Horror R B
1 RAV Flame-Kin Zealot 1RRW Creature - Elemental Berserker U Gld
4 FUT Narcomoeba 1U Creature - Illusion U U
4 RAV Stinkweed Imp 2B Creature - Imp C B
4 TO Putrid Imp B Creature - Zombie Imp C B
1 TO Cephalid Sage 3U Creature - Cephalid U U
1 TSB Akroma, Angel of Wrath 5WWW Legendary Creature - Angel R W
//\\
// Spells
4 FUT Bridge from Below BBB Enchantment R B
3 JU Cabal Therapy B Sorcery U B
4 TO Breakthrough XU Sorcery U U
4 OD Careful Study U Sorcery C U
3 TSP Dread Return 2BB Sorcery U B
4 GP Leyline of the Void 2BB Enchantment R B
//\\
// Sideboard
4 ON Chain of Vapor U Instant U U
1 JU Phantom Nishoba 5GW Creature - Beast Spirit R Gld
2 RAV Darkblast B Instant U B
4 10E Pithing Needle 1 Artifact R Art
4 FUT Tombstalker 6BB Creature - Demon R B