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Foils


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KrovikanMist



Joined: 02 Feb 2007
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:04 am    Post subject: Foils Reply with quote

Say you have a few foils in your deck, what are the rules regarding that? Is there like a policy of either needing all foils or no foils at all.

this is regarding real-life tournment play.
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Nere



Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cant have say 4 of one card all foils and the rest of the deck normal. You need something along the lines: random amount of foils of random cards or full foil deck.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, there are no hard and fast rules, since you could 'mark' your deck with foils in many ways. Basically, when the judge looks over your deck, he shouldn't get the feeling you only made certain portions foil to mark your deck. So don't foil only one card, or all your non-lands, or all your creatures, etc.
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LoneWulf



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Hardtrack stated there are no hard and fast rules regarding this. This is more an issue of how the judge perceives your intent (deck marking or just a little bling). There shouldn't be too much of a problem as long as the few foils in your deck aren't showing too much of the "foil bend".
The same goes for the use of card sleeves. Always best to ask the Head Judge/Tournament Organizer before the event begins. Some HJ/TOs won't allow certain sleeves due to reflectiveness or art.
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Avata



Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 407

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely. The rule for that kind of thing is always "When in doubt, consult the TO."
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Pegleg



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:39 pm    Post subject: FOIL RULING Reply with quote

The wizards of the coast ruling is it doesnt matter with foils they are considered not marked cards and are allowed to be played. Can't really do anything about it unless its a blatant and they are trying to take advantage of foils during the game like feeling for mark cards and stuff
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LoneWulf



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:51 am    Post subject: Re: FOIL RULING Reply with quote

Pegleg wrote:
The wizards of the coast ruling is it doesnt matter with foils they are considered not marked cards and are allowed to be played. Can't really do anything about it unless its a blatant and they are trying to take advantage of foils during the game like feeling for mark cards and stuff


Too bad WotC doesn't sanction tournaments. The DCI does.

Yes foils are legal to play but in a sanctioned event if it's easy to spot in your deck because of the "foil bend" it will be considered a marked card. This is why it's encouraged to have a majority of your deck foil or at least use foils that haven't started to "bend".

I've judged plenty of events where a player had one or two foils in their deck and it was easy to spot.

L2 judge
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lennin
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

heres an idea stop wasting ur money on foils and buy regular cards, that saves money and can save u from being dqued.
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

there is nothing wrong with using all lands foil or only 1 specific card in foil.

the only possible problem is how your foils are bended. if there is a way to find out which cards are foils or not (marked cards) it can get problematic. if you, for example have foils look different (from the back) than normal cards, you will probably receive a penalty for marked cards. If all of these cards are lands, the penalty is marked cards-pattern (Gameloss)

...so, make sure there is no way to make a difference (bend) within foils and nonfoils.

I use some foils, (if i have them) and never had a problem with it

L1 Judge
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are people that can always pick out foils by simply handling them, just because they are slightly thicker than regular cards. I personally can only do it if they are a little bend, but I've seen people pick out the foils with almost 100% accuracy when I couldn't tell the difference.

Therefor you are under scrutiny the moment your foils have some sort of pattern. In most cases it should be fine, but I'd always check beforehand and try to avoid any pattern in your foils. All foil lands will almost certainly get you into trouble, because the advantage is so great.
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LoneWulf



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to make sure I'm 100% clear...

Foils are not inherently bad to play with and are not immediately targeted as "problem" cards. Even playing with all foiled lands is not really a problem. It's when they develop that little bend and become easily spotted within your deck.
Play with quality sleeves and make sure to shuffle face up then face down and that should help alleviate some of the bending. I'll shuffle my deck both ways just to keep my normal cards from getting bent too much from being shuffled in one direction. As long as your last few shuffles are face down to ensure proper randomization there shouldn't be any issues.
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Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just the fact that all your lands are foils, could get you into trouble. It will probably not, but it can. If somebody calls a judge about your foils, and he checks your deck to find only the lands foil, he may decide that you need to change them. Again, it's not very likely, but it could happen. I'd either make my entire deck foil or make sure there is no pattern to the foils.
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Drizzs



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 39

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if theres seriously a problemw ith foils lol why would wizards print them? anyways personally at champs all my lands were foiled a judge came over and said that it does'nt matter what cardsa re foiled as long as the deck itself is'nt stacked in anyway or the cards arent marked and so heres my answer

if you cards arent marked who cares what is foiled or what is'nt foiled, the rule applies to both foils and nonfoils, just make sure there not marked in any way !! Thanks

Drizzs
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LoneWulf



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But remember when using sleeves to check with the Head Judge before the tournament to make sure that they are acceptable at that event. When I judge casual/Regular REL events I usually allow all the pretty pretty shiny nifty artsy fartsy sleeves. At higher level events those sleeves are usually disallowed as they can be easily marked.
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dt



Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 45

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a recent story of someone at a PTQ given a game loss for having kird apes as the only foils in his deck - see the very bottom of the article.

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=7950

Here is the relevant paragraph:

Quote:
We also had to give a player vying for the Top 8 a game loss in the last round of Swiss because he was playing with 4 foil FNM Kird Apes as the only foils in his deck. This in and of itself is not an infraction, but it raised my judge-dar, especially when I sorted the deck and the 4 foils made a noticeable bulge. After separating them and doing some quick shuffle and finds, we determined that the 4 foils did constitute a marked deck with a pattern, an infraction that carries a game loss that cost him the Top 8. We did not feel that the player was doing this intentionally to gain an advantage, as that would have been an immediate DQ with no prize.
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