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3 things you should probably know about...


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MilanG[GER]



Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craze wrote:
...


you're already embrassing yourself enough with this thread

so i thought when you try to smarttalk explaining how cards work, you should atleast know how it actually works
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing: First strike divides the combat damage step into 2 instances of combat damage (not sure if this is the correct wording) So if I block a 4/4 creature with a 2/1 first striker and then play Incinerate after my creature has dealt damage, my creature won't die!!
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Ggerg



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 632

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

right. as far as correct wording or whatever, there is an extra "first strike combat damage step" in which creatures with first strike and double strike deal their damage before the regular "combat damage step"

not that it matters, i just thought u might like to know
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Vedrfolner



Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 2325

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lynolf wrote:
Another thing: First strike divides the combat damage step into 2 instances of combat damage (not sure if this is the correct wording) So if I block a 4/4 creature with a 2/1 first striker and then play Incinerate after my creature has dealt damage, my creature won't die!!


I want to believe that First Strike, an ability that has been around since the very beginning of this strategy game, is as basic as playing only one land per turn.

Planeswalkers are new. It is understandable that not everyone knows all aspects of how they affect the game. After all, I read the rules around preview time, and haven't ever since. I was in a situation yesterday where the trample-through-planeswalkers issue came up, and since it was a casual game, neither of us bothered to check it up. We agreed that it didn't, out of general intuition.

Arguments on rules questions happens all the time, even in major tournaments. Isn't it kind of obvious that it also happens all the time at this lower level? I know the feeling when you know you are right, but this fellow continues to challenge you. That is what #judges4you are for. I don't know the exact wording in the rules, and often it is something I remember to have read somewhere - for example when I first was in the live/die Tarmo situation. I remembered to have read that the spell goes in the graveyard before resolution (or something), and my intuition told me that Tarmo would grow before the damage (of incinerate) resolved. My opponent contested this... but I wasn't SURE. Not word-by-word ruling sure.

So we went to #judges4you and got it solved there.

Very handy channel indeed.

Being angry and annoyed at "those n00000bs" does nothing.
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rdeg87



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we are on the subject of rules could someone explain to me the EXACT interaction when.....
I play Cryptic Command with Guile In play. Choosing Counter and draw.

Unless I am completely mistaken This is a complicated procedure so I dont want random Jackass's answering this
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lennin
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

their spell gets removed from game and u get to cast it right away, and u dont draw a card, and black dog there is no damage step for non combat damage
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rdeg87 wrote:
Since we are on the subject of rules could someone explain to me the EXACT interaction when.....
I play Cryptic Command with Guile In play. Choosing Counter and draw.

Unless I am completely mistaken This is a complicated procedure so I dont want random Jackass's answering this


I'll try to explain this as correctly as I can

Guile says: If a spell or ability you control would counter a spell, instead remove that spell from the game and you may play that card without paying its mana cost.

When you counter the spell with the command or any other card, the spell isn't actually countered, because this is a replacement effect. Instead, it is removed from the game. Now you have two choices: You can play the removed card IMMEDIATELY after cryptic command finishes its resolution. Many people think that you can play the removed card anytime during the game but that's not true. If you do not play the spell, you don't get another chance of playing and it remains removed from the game.

Now this doesn't affect the rest of cryptic command effects. You still get do draw a card or any other choice that happened, but befor you play the removed spell if you wish to play it.

If I didn't explained well, you can always check this site for Guile's rules. Wink

http://ww2.wizards.com/gatherer/CardDetails.aspx?&id=140190

PS: Lennin I think you're wrong, because there is a part in Guile's rules that says:
If the spell or ability that tried to counter the spell has additional effects, it then continues to resolve.
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lennin
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes but cryptic command doesnt resolve as there is no legal target anymore, i may be wrong can anyone confirm this for sure
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rdeg87



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have also been told from a different source that the replacement interupts the resolution of the command. Its an interesting interaction and a common enough one at that. I bet half the people playing sonic boom dont even know the correct interaction
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rdeg87



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for double post but I just found this

10/1/2007 Guile's second ability replaces "counter [a certain spell]" with "remove [a certain spell] from the game and you may play it without paying its mana cost." You have the option to play it immediately upon its removal. If you choose not to, it remains removed from the game and you don't get another chance to play it. If the spell or ability that tried to counter the spell has additional effects, it then continues to resolve.

My take on this is..... Counter the spell -Replacement-, play the spell, Draw card.
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Thorns



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 863
Location: Rath

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lennin wrote:
yes but cryptic command doesnt resolve as there is no legal target anymore, i may be wrong can anyone confirm this for sure


From Guile's Official Rulings on Gatherer:

# 10/1/2007 Guile's second ability replaces "counter [a certain spell]" with "remove [a certain spell] from the game and you may play it without paying its mana cost." You have the option to play it immediately upon its removal. If you choose not to, it remains removed from the game and you don't get another chance to play it. If the spell or ability that tried to counter the spell has additional effects, it then continues to resolve.
# 10/1/2007 Removing the spell from the game is mandatory. Playing it is not.
# 10/1/2007 A spell removed from the game this way was never actually countered.

So Lennin, you are correct. You wouldn't draw a card from Cryptic Command or Dismiss or the like.

I have another question concerning Guile. If I play Condescend for 0, does Guile trigger or not?
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jared



Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 55

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thorns: condescend would only trigger Guile if the opponent didn't pay the 0. condescend: counter target spell unless it's controller pays X. so if they do pay X the spell is never countered. same with rune snag and mana leak.
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rdeg87



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thorns you also skipped over the last bit of the ruling.

"If the spell or ability that tried to counter the spell has additional effects, it then continues to resolve".

So the second part of he command will still resolve
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Thorns



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 863
Location: Rath

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops my bad, I skipped a line while reading the rulings. Embarassed
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Craze



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5676
Location: Indiana, U

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Black_Dog wrote:


Once again Craze shows us that he is the voice of reason and Judge of all things right and I guess we can assume that Mayberry, Indiana is no longer counted as a "backwater FNM"... Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil

Saying Swath Storm is no longer viable is like the same dumbasses who said Belcher, TES and Iggy and Hulk Flash were a flash in the pan and just caught everyone off guard. "They actually suck and if you expect em, then you'll stop em easy..." Yeah maybe in theory or
@ yer Backwater FNM.

I don't even like Storm and think its overrated but I'm not a big enough moron to actually think it isn't viable. But yeah, Obviously Swath just falls apart everytime it comes up against you right? Pfft.


Now maybe its because I only play T2, not legacy or extended. Maybe its because Blackdog is an idiot and used far too much sarcasm, but for the purpose of this thread I'll assume his first paragraph read like this.

Black_Dog wrote:


Once again Craze shows us that he is the voice of reason and Judge of all things right.


Yes thats true.

As for the rest of your post, we'll I understand I may have said "viable" and meant "remotely good" or "not capable of winning against anyone but Blackdog." You can choose. Neither way changes the fact that outside of a bad hand after the sb, its very hard to lose vs Swath Storm.

Blah234 wrote:
Black_Dog, we're talking about Craze here. He's arguably the worst MtG player to play this game. Why would anything HE says be taken seriously?


wtf are you? I've been here for a long time and haven't seen you, so I assume your some random. You don't know me nor have we spoken so your opinion period means shit, so you can sit down now and stop baiting off at the false assumption that what you said somehow meant something.

xion wrote:
ahhh hahah owned right , He prolly wants to play ramp now hes infecting the minds of the young kids so they do not wield his arch enemy.Very Happy


Same goes for you. And I don't play mana ramp btw.

Ggerg wrote:
i laugh when i think about craze's reactions after reading all these posts about how much of an ass he is.


I laughed too. I laughed at how all these idiots were still threatened by me enough to flame me. I thought I lost that level of importance along time ago.

Thanks guys, you lightened up my day.
oh and...

Black_Dog wrote:
but I'm not a big enough moron to actually...


Thank You

Black_Dog wrote:
Yeah it was made with Piper + Phage with Angel as an Alternate win condition.


And Have A Nice Day!

morons


Last edited by Craze on Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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