Magic-League.com Forum Index Magic-League.com
Forums of Magic-League: Free Online tcg playing; casual or tournament play.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Heatshimmer



 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Rulings
Author Message
Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Heatshimmer Reply with quote

If I have a Nantuko Husk, sacrifice 3 creatures to give him +6/+6. Then I cast Heatshimmer targeting Nantuko Husk. Would the Heatshimmer make a 8/8 or just a 2/2? And how would this work with something like a clone or shapeshifter?
Back to top
Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copy effects only copy the 'base' creature. Basically only what is printed on the card (as modified by other copy effects). You'll just get a 2/2 Nantuko Husk.
Back to top
Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually Hardtrack I disagree with you.

When an object becomes a copy of another object, it becomes everything the object is the time it is copied. So if Nantuko Husk is a 8/8 creature, the token will be 8/8 too.

To confirm this you can check the rulings of cytoshape that say:
1/5/2006 Effects that have already applied to the target creature will continue to apply to it. For example, if Giant Growth had given it +3/+3 earlier in the turn, then Cytoshape makes it a copy of Grizzly Bears, it will be a 5/5 Grizzly Bears.
Back to top
Kuberr
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 25 Oct 2006
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you misread the information in the gatherer.

it will NOT copy those effects! your heat shimmer'ed husk will be 2/2

1-5-2006 The creature copies the printed values of the chosen creature, plus any copy effects that have been applied to it. It won't copy counters on that creature. It won't copy effects that have changed the creature's power, toughness, types, color, or so on.

the thing you read in gatherer means, if you play cytoshape on the 8/8 husk, changing it to a grizzly bears, the +6/+6 will still apply TO THE HUSK. (so it will still be 8/8 in the end)
Back to top
Hardtrack



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 651

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about some rules with that disagreement?

503.2. When copying an object, the copy acquires the copiable values of the original object’s characteristics (name, mana cost, color, card type, supertype, subtype, expansion symbol, rules text, power, toughness, loyalty) and, for an object on the stack, choices made when playing it (mode, targets, the value of X, whether a kicker cost was paid, how it will affect multiple targets, and so on). The “copiable values” are the values that are printed on the object, as modified by other copy effects, by “as . . . comes into play” and “as . . . is turned face up” abilities that set characteristics, and by abilities that caused the object to be face down. Other effects (including type-changing and text-changing effects), status, and counters are not copied.
Example: Chimeric Staff is an artifact that reads “{X}: Chimeric Staff becomes an X/X artifact creature until end of turn.” Clone is a creature that reads, “As Clone comes into play, you may choose a creature in play. If you do, Clone comes into play as a copy of that creature.” After a Staff has become a 5/5 artifact creature, a Clone comes into play as a copy of it. The Clone is an artifact, not a 5/5 artifact creature. (The copy has the Staff’s ability, however, and will become a creature if that ability is activated.)
Example: Clone comes into play as a copy of a face-down Grinning Demon (a creature with morph {2}{B}{B}). The Clone is a colorless 2/2 creature with no name, no types, no abilities, and no mana cost. It will still be face up. Its controller can’t pay {2}{B}{B} to turn it face up.
Back to top
Thorns



Joined: 16 Aug 2006
Posts: 863
Location: Rath

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hardtrack > all.

I never argue Hardtrack on anything rules-wise, he always has the correct answer.
Back to top
x|dralnu|x



Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe it is in the same league as Twincasting a Fireball for X. The copy retains the X value spent to cast it, and is not the base spell.
Back to top
str8



Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it is absolutely not the same as fireball and twincast.

Heatshimmer will create a nantuko husk that is a 2/2 (exactly as the card is printed)

the X on fireball is a completely different issue X on spells is 0 anywhere else but that stack. on the stack X= the amount paid for it.
Back to top
LoneWulf



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2007 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hardtrack is correct for the reasons he's stated.
Look up Cytoshape in Gatherer and the second ruling says why.
Twincast is completely different because it is not copying a permanent but a spell on the stack. Because it is doing so to a spell on the stack X has a value. A spell with X always has X=0 in any zone other than the stack.
Louis
L2 DCI judge
TN
Back to top
derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finetuning time:

Spells with X always have x as the value, never 0 (unless 0 was chosen for it).

Spells don't exist outside of the stack Smile
Back to top
LoneWulf



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok CMA get all technical on me. Yeah spells don't exist outside of the stack. I meant CARDS with X in the cost have X=0 in any zone except the stack (unless 0 was chosen for X).
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic Rulings All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

All content on this page may not be reproduced without consent of Magic-League Directors.
Magic the Gathering is TM and copyright Wizards of the Coast, Inc, a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc. All rights reserved.


About Us | Contact Us | Privacy Policy