EXT BG Planeswalkers Dcloud SERIOUS! help please

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

So I have been testing and tweaking this deck tons for the ptqs, but College stops me from continueing to test and fine tune:

So magic-league friends, help me contunue to modify this list to perfecton till december 18th when my finals are over please? I had to uninstall MWS cus I care that much.

24 lands:
4 Golgari Rotrfarm
7 Black fetch
4 tainted wood
1 urborg, tomb of
5 swamo
3 overgrown tomb

4 gurrik plansewalker
3 lillana vess

3 Phyrexian totem
3 sensais devining top

4 ravenous balloth
4 Tarmogoyf

4 duress
3 thoughsieze
4 deathcloud
1 damnation

3 smother

SB:
3 damnation
4 Extirpate
4 Withered Wrech
1 thoughsiezee
1 slaughterpact
2 Kroan Grip

The SB is slightly sketchy, I dunno. The idea is so sound though, baloth+gurrik or gurrik+cloud or any planswalkers+large cloud or big cloud to anything really.

any suggestions? I cant think of any immediate changes, I wish I had the time to just perfect this on my own, but I know you guys are smart too. fast agro god draws (agro is so agro wow) and ballancing act/ loam when they just topdeck the win card or the burning wish to the win somehow.

is pretty sound though, this is the exact list id bring to a ptq if it was tomorrow.

thoughts?

lennin · Guest

interesting, i would actually only run 1 deathcloud to tutor up with lliana as well as a putrefy or 2 and i would add more mana accelrators liek signets or smt but the concept seems cool.

Lynolf · Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 239

Your vocabulary is interesting XD. Why don't you try smallpox?

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

Na 4 cloud for sure- its so good omg. A cloud for 2 or 3 is almost always game. you want to be making them discard whenever possible with lillana- she is such insane card advantage. I was thinking of running more accelerators too, it would be lovely to be able to cast my turn 4 stuff on turn 3- cut what though? I'm thinking its fine- any more accelerators is bad card advantage. Peutrify isnt a bad idea but cut what?

and maybe smallpox would be good, although even if I did think of what to cut- I'm just worried id stop me from getting the high mana that I need and would just sit in my hand when I have a baloth or a goyf out. Think of this deck as more like Tooth and nail- its trying to cloud them to nothing and still have a totem or planswalkers or something

kendiggy · Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 366 Location: not here

I played b/g Death Cloud back during Mirrodin Block and I did very well with it. I'm pretty sure Death Cloud should only be a three-of. You even have tutors, there really is no reason why you should be running all four. You don't want them to be clogging your hand at the start of the game.

I'm going to suggest Sakura Tribe-Elder for accleration, because you have very little and I'm assuming it's needed. Also, Eternal Witness/Cabal Therapy looks like it could find a home here. That combo is brutal, it helps ensure your opponent's hand is free of answers to your Death Cloud. I'm going to advise that you ditch Sensei's Divining Top because you don't have many ways to re-shuffle. You've got a few fetch lands and you've got Lilianna, whom is very late. Once you've done that you can add Treetop Village to your mana base.

This is everything that comes to mind off the top of my head. It would help if you described what sorts of problems you have with the deck, which matchups are good for you and which are bad and why, etc.

KeySam · Joined: 14 Oct 2005 Posts: 533

I kind of like the idea but i would change some things, why your not running any land fetchers i dont like that i would defentaly play 1 Bosejiu main and more in side. I would think about living wish instead of phrexian totem(so you may play abal offers * urborg in side/main) in side. Instead of Damnation play Deed. I dislike the 7 planeswalkers i would redue them to 3 and 2. And like mentioned above a Witness along lines with therapy seems fine. And i agree that senseis seem terrible exiting with that few resuffles. I think you may take a look at rok. Even Terravore seems like a fine addition with your deathloud and the tons of fethes everyones playing.

Ggerg · Joined: 04 Sep 2005 Posts: 397

rotlung reanimator and plow under are both awesome

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

Plow under, interesting. the deck is already maybe a tad reactive as it is, I'm thinking make it more active and elementate potentially dead cards. plow under is a really good card though and owns with cloud, maybe a one side vs control. I'll try it out, although I rarley tutor with vess, and if I do its cuz I'm about to win and anything is good. I'll test it out though thanks man... If I can find some time. College is so hard jesus seriously, spanish owns me hardcore. ty for the help.

Plansewalkers are nuts, Id consider running a 4th vess before cutting anything. Deed is good though, I think I just forgot about that. and I like having a sidebord, Wish is good but I really really like totem, he has only once screwed me hardcore and it was from a misread on body language.

is 7 fetches really not enough for top? and top is good with vess, although maybe I could cut top and squeeze in witness/therapy or at maybe search for tommorow or elder. I wish I had time to test this, there are just so many options.

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

O and also I decided to run at least one bisuju side, it is a really good card although slow blue is not a worry really with so much discard

Engrishskill · Joined: 15 Jan 2007 Posts: 400

I harsh read that Kendiggy looks like a retard on some redneck's blog. Fo' realz.

Seriously though, I'd consider kodama's reach as an accelerant.
Sakura tribe elder too. The ability to pull a win off with dorks is golden.

Also, I don't know how practical this would be, but if the number of creatures goes up, swords might be worth looking into.

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

To be honest guys, this deck doesnt have any bad matchups, sometimes I lose to manaflood or manascrew, but so does every deck. I added elders and deeds and I'm liking it. I really miss totems but I think sac-tribe is just quickser and more synergetic and less risky. this is the list as it is, I dunno how I can still be tweaking this during finals week haha.

really, can anyone maybe help me with a more-math-inspired manabase?

// Lands
1 [UNH] Forest
3 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 [TO] Tainted Wood
4 [RAV] Golgari Rot Farm
4 [OD] Swamp (3)
3 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
4 [ON] Ravenous Baloth
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
3 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
3 [LRW] Liliana Vess

// Spells
1 [PLC] Damnation
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [DS] Death Cloud
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [AP] Pernicious Deed
4 [7E] Duress

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [PLC] Damnation
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 4 [TSB] Withered Wretch
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [CHK] Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 [8E] Plow Under
SB: 1 [OD] Haunting Echoes
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

Sorry for the double post, I'll just edit in the future

// Lands
1 [UNH] Forest
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
4 [TO] Tainted Wood
4 [RAV] Golgari Rot Farm
4 [OD] Swamp (3)
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb

// Creatures
4 [ON] Ravenous Baloth
3 [LRW] Liliana Vess
4 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
3 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
3 [DS] Death Cloud
1 [OD] Skeletal Scrying
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [7E] Duress
4 [AP] Pernicious Deed
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [PLC] Damnation

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [8E] Plow Under
SB: 3 [PLC] Damnation
SB: 3 [TSB] Withered Wretch
SB: 3 [OD] Haunting Echoes
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate

dv8r · Joined: 15 Oct 2005 Posts: 134

to be honest, I find it VERY hard to take you seriously when you go "this deck has no bad matchups". All that tells me is that you've just not been testing properly, enough, or vs players that know what they are doing properly. Although I will concede that I'm not completely adverse to the idea of the deck.

First things first, the main reason you want boseiju sideboard is NOT to play against control, pure counterspell control doesn't really exist in extended, and when it does, it's in tron (which plays tempo counterspells like remand/memory lapse) or in aggro control decks that play counterbalance (boseiju is AWFUL vs aggro-control, and you don't care about counterbalance). The real reason you want boseiju is enduring ideal, as it allows you to trump their game plan. Go to 5 off form of the dragon with a dovescape in play? Sure, boseiju/deathcloud you. gg? As such, you want to play more than just one sb. I'd suggest going to 3. Ideal is a HORRIBLE matchup for you. Hand discard is only good vs them if backed up by a fast clock (which you can't provide) and once they go off, you can't really win, even with a deed on the table.

4 Tainted wood is too many. Drop 1-2 for 1-2 forest to increase your resistance to destructive flow.

The lack of witness and genesis (especially genesis as a 1 of, somewhere) is a little surprising, but I'm prepared to concede they MIGHT not be needed, though I'm going to remain quietly skeptical (baloth + genesis seems good vs aggro burn decks)

Withered wretch is worse than yixlid jailor vs dredge and breakfast.

With an early game highly reliant on goyf, and no real ways to stop a dark confidant getting out of control except for a lucky turn 1 thoughtseize, I think you should probably be playing some number of smother/chainer's edict etc. sb

Lastly, midrange decks like gifts rock and rock and nail are going to be problematic simply because their trumps (sundering titan and global ruin) are just better or cheaper than yours. I can't really make a suggestion for how to help here other than suggesting more sb plow unders, but I would suggest that you should be focussing your effort here.

EDIT: Oh, teeg is VERY bad for you.... more reason to run the edict/smother

EDIT 2: Cranial extraction might help vs gifts rock and ideal, (although less vs rock and nail), running haunting echoes is fine if you expect a lot of rock, but it's going to do nothing vs combo decks, which extraction is VERY good against if you know what you are doing

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

Dude you rock, I only had time to read what you said over once and I'm kinda drunk. I honestly did fourteen hours of spanish today haha what I meant on by I have no match ups, Is I have not played enough games to lose to the same deck twice yet, but, EVERY league game ive lost has been to me forgetting I'm playing in league games.

I strongly agree with every word you said, and I have also contemplated genesis and also echosVSextraction, and I played edict, then smother, them cut them as I was having really really good games vs all serious agro. Who knows thoug, Two weeks fromnyesterday I;ll be done with college for over a month. Big hard universities like the U of M can really be rough depending on what classes you take.

Clatanoff · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 39

I dunno about the Jailer Vs Wretch. jailer has it hands down vs cephloid breakfast but lots of dredge seems to play blast. If played correctly, one wretch with one mana should shut down breakfast, and wretch survives darkblast. Ima go with jailer for now but In testing it wouldnt have really mattedered which cuz a resolved jailor or rwetch should be game vs breakfast or dredge. unless they get the nut dredge. anyway, here is the list. so far the only deck I have lost twice to was UGb tarmobalance and it seemed like rotten luck, or at least the only thing i can think to improve my matchup based on emperics is to add more lands and then take out some lands... anyway, here is the list as is, and further advice?? thanks tons you guys.

// Lands
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 [RAV] Golgari Rot Farm
2 [UNH] Forest
4 [OD] Swamp (3)
2 [TO] Tainted Wood
3 [RAV] Overgrown Tomb
3 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire

// Creatures
4 [LRW] Garruk Wildspeaker
3 [LRW] Liliana Vess
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [ON] Ravenous Baloth
4 [CHK] Sakura-Tribe Elder

// Spells
1 [PLC] Enslave
1 [LRW] Profane Command
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
3 [DS] Death Cloud
4 [7E] Duress
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [OD] Haunting Echoes
SB: 1 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [PLC] Seal of Primordium
SB: 1 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [FUT] Yixlid Jailer
SB: 4 [PLC] Damnation

I have the siding down to an art, specific plans for each tir one deck. the deck is pretty sound but I know its not near perfect. also, does anyone know if Morningtide will be in for the big upcoming IRL ext tournament?