Phage the Untouchable

Gorbadoc · Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 56

I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to kill an opponent by plopping Phage the Untouchable into play under his control. Suppose I have the following under my control:

In Hand:
Phage the Untouchable
Changeling Titan
Momentary Blink

In Play:
2x Elvish Piper
Shapesharer
Any changeling creature owned by my opponent but under my control (for example, a Sower of Temptation victim hit with Amoeboid Changeling's first ability)

Available Mana:
G, 2U, G, 1W

I play Phage using an Elvish Piper. Phage comes into play, and the "You lose" effect goes on the stack for me.

In response, I use my Shapesharer to turn my opponent's changeling into a copy of Phage. I let this effect resolve.

In response (and before the "you lose" effect resolves), I play Changeling Titan with my other Elvish Piper.

Titan comes into play, and I champion the Phage copy (which belongs to my opponent).

In response to the copy being removed from the game (in other words, I let everything resolve to the point where "You lose" is about to resolve), I Momentary Blink my Changeling Titan.

Titan pops out of and back into existence, causing the Phage clone to come into play under my opponent's control (because he still owns it).

Since a Phage the Untouchable copy just came into play under my opponent's control, the "You lose" effect goes onto the stack for him, and resolves before the "You lose" effect resolves for me.

I know this isn't very practical, but does it work? And if not, why not? Thanks!

Edit: I thought of using Momentary Blink on the Phage copy directly, but I think that would restore it to whatever creature it was originally.

UntapUpkeep · Joined: 09 Sep 2004 Posts: 13

When the copy is removed from the game, it comes back as whatever creature it is, not the copy.

Removing from the game removes everything from the card. All effects, local enchantments, counters, etc are removed when it leaves the game.
Whenever it comes back into play, it's new, like it was just cast.

ajvanadri · Joined: 26 Apr 2006 Posts: 46

Unless I misunderstand, your championing a creature controled by your opponent.

This cant be done, and also UntapUpkeep is correct, when the copy is removed from game, it "forgets" all status changes it had (taped, character defining traits that were granted ect.) and acts as if it just came into play for the first time when it comes back

kendiggy · Joined: 30 Nov 2004 Posts: 366 Location: not here

Um, when you use Shapesharer to change your opponent's changeling into a copy of Phage, the changeling and Phage die as a state-based effect, before you can do anything else. They will both be legendary Phages.

ransom3 · Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 142

Also, his copy of Phage that you created never comes into play. It's already in play. If you champion it, it won't return to play as Phage, it will return as a new copy of whatever it was before you used Shapesharer's ability. This combo is extremely clunky and I don't think it could ever be used effectively (maybe 1 out of 100 games).

lennin · Guest

this doesnt work bc u cant champion his creature, among other things which were said

Gorbadoc · Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 56

lennin · Guest

just because u shapesharer an opps creature doesnt mean you control it, and the creature does lose any counters or if it was a copy of anything after being championed, because its considered a differentcopy of the card, even though its the same card

Gorbadoc · Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 56

lennin · Guest

9/25/2006 When Momentary Blink resolves, the creature is removed from the game, then immediately returned to play. The game sees the returning card as a different permanent from the one that left play. Any counters, Auras, and so on are removed. Any spells or abilities targeting the creature no longer target it.

Gorbadoc · Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 56

Better, but that's a ruling, not a rule. It would serve the same purpose if they bothered to cite the rules when they issued that ruling, but they didn't.

Edit:
Found it. It's under the Zones rules:

thedarkness · Joined: 13 Jul 2006 Posts: 460

Leaves Play
A permanent leaves play when it moves from the in-play zone to any other zone (see rule 410.10c) or when its owner leaves the game (see rule 600.4a).
If a token leaves play, it ceases to exist. This is a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.
If a permanent leaves play and later returns to play, it’s treated as an entirely new permanent with no “memory” of anything from its former existence. (Phasing is an exception to this; see rule 502.15, “Phasing.” Permanents that phase out also don’t trigger any comes-into-play or leaves-play abilities.)

A permanent leaves play when it moves from the in-play zone to any other zone

This includes the Removed From Game zone.

If a permanent leaves play and later returns to play, it’s treated as an entirely new permanent with no “memory” of anything from its former existence.

So when the shapesharer'd creature returns to play, it is what its text says it is, and any pertinent "as this object comes into play" and "when this object comes into play" abilities on the original card will go on the stack if applicable.

Gorbadoc · Joined: 29 Oct 2007 Posts: 56

That debunks my plan, too. Thanks for all the criticisms!

Questar · Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 54

was that a troll?