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Tarmogoyf BANNED?!?!


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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, I leave Magic-league for a couple days and my thread gets Necro'ed with a 60+ post count. It looks like I hit a nerve.

Well, I'm on the fence as to whether Tarmogoyf should be banned (in T2). So, rather than talk about the pros and cons of Goyf I thought I would share one of the decks I've been working on since the Lorwyn patch came out.

My deck is a black green deck, and it started like any other deck. Creatures, removal, card advantage. As I tested, I would tweak cards here and there, making small adjustments. I laughed out loud when I took a step back and looked at my deck.

// Lands
4 [10E] Llanowar Wastes
1 [PLC] Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
6 [10E] Swamp (1)
4 [LOR] Gilt-Leaf Palace
7 [10E] Forest (1)

// Creatures
4 [LOR] Masked Admirers
4 [LOR] Shriekmaw
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 [LOR] Garruk Wildspeaker
4 [LOR] Liliana Vess
4 [PLC] Damnation
4 [LOR] Eyeblight's Ending
3 [LOR] Profane Command
4 [LOR] Fertile Ground
3 [LOR] Primal Command

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LOR] Profane Command
SB: 1 [LOR] Primal Command
SB: 2 [FUT] Riftsweeper
SB: 4 [TSB] Dodecapod
SB: 3 [10E] Naturalize
SB: 4 [10E] Deathmark

This is far from complete, and a little untuned, but I think the message is clear. Tarmogoyf is format warping. lol.

I don't usually post lists and this deck is a far cry from tier 1. I'm just using it as an example.
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FR33BALLA247



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dont ban tarmogoyf yet! lemme sell mine to bad magic players on the streets. seriously, tarmogoyf isnt THAT big of a threat, when im playing teachings or any other control deck, gargadon is worse seeing as he makes tendrils fizzle when im playing against goblins, is a huge answer to turn 4-6 damnation, and HE is tough to kill. all this smalltalk about banning an innocent little goyf is rediculous, we might as well ban loxodon hierarch in T2 oh wait......

im with whats his face---> dark confidant is an even better creature. but who knows? goyf did just win valencia and it will be in every legacy deck now that flash is banned.
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lennin
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

meloku > goyf, they didnt ban meloku
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CloudRisen



Joined: 08 Sep 2004
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tarmo isnt format warping, hell it wasnt even block warping.

In t2 it doesnt excelerate past the Wog Curve for control therefor its easly kept in check.

Its a way for creature decks to beat up on other creature decks, its no different from jitte except for that its a threat by itself. Its not ban worthy by any stretch of the imagination, if it were black that would be another story.
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IberianWolf



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 153

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when p+lating balancing tings goyf is usually 5/6 or 6/7. now what if wizards printed something for one mana that said "this creature's power and toughness are equal to the number of card types in your graveyard minus one" you get the idea. basically a goyf with one less mana and one less power. would that make it "fair"?

Tarmogoyf is NOT a fair card. "oh, he dies to grave removal!" yeah big deal, now I'll be using grave removal because of a creature :/ even BOROS is running goyf. it's ridiculous. I don't really like it, I think it's a stupid card in the sense that it is too good. it's strong, and it has its weaknesses, but not balanced at all. I mean, when you can have a 2/3 for 1G on the second turn, what's the point of having stuff like grizzly bears and other creatures with a fair P/T printed?


sorry for the long rant, but I'm really outraged by this card. one thing is format-warping, another thing is format-retarding. T2 now stands for Tarmogoyf 2.
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lennin
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ur retarded
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sirvive



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holzi wrote:
Tarmogoyf. It's another Psychatog or Jitte" - by Pierre Canali at GP Montreal


Did they ever ban Jitte or Tog?




was tog ever splashed into every single deck in a format? it is the backbone of extended. in t2 its not that big of an issue yet, but it will be. I am sensing down the road everyone will take a 2nd glance at there "tribal instant- goblin" and think: "enemy goyf.. enjoy the boost."
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natethetank



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my fucking god TARMOGOYF IS A CREATURE WITH NO ABILITIES. ITS GOOD AT ATTACKING AND BLOCKING BUT IS ESSANTIALLY VANILLA. THEY WILL NEVER PRINT A BAN WORTHY VANILLA CARD. if you think goyf is too good then play shreikmaw and its ilk. then suddenly goyf isnt too good. the every color has an answer to tarmgoyf. you should rejoice that people are ruining there manabase to splash a creature.
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emphasis on 'One of the best'. Nobody's saying it isn't superb, but the best out of few thousand is saying rather much, especially since the cards have so different roles. Dark Confidant, Hermit Druid, Goblin Recruiter, Goblin Welder, Goblin Lackey, Psychatog, Squee, Arcbound Ravager, etc. are all powerful creatures that have totally different jobs (well, save 'Tog and Ravager maybe, but even Ravager's power comes much from the fact that it tosses its counters around, while 'Tog is a more straightforward finisher) and it's hard to tell which would be the best since they don't do the same thing. You can say that StP is better than Terror since it has no limitations, costs less and RFGs with the only downside being the lifegain, but it's hard to compare StP with Land Tax since they have totally different applications. The same applies to many of those creatures, some provide CA, some work as engines, some support engines, some accelerate your gameplay and some just beat for lots. 'Goyf is definitely the créme de la crop of the last one, but nothing in the others.

Last edited by Eldariel on Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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natethetank



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldariel wrote:
Emphasis on 'One of the best'. Nobody's saying it isn't superb, but the best out of few thousand is pretty much, especially since the cards have so different roles. Dark Confidant, Hermit Druid, Goblin Recruiter, Goblin Welder, Goblin Lackey, Psychatog, Squee, Arcbound Ravager, etc. are all powerful creatures that have totally different jobs (well, save 'Tog and Ravager maybe, but even Ravager's power comes much from the fact that it tosses its counters around, while 'Tog is a more straightforward finisher) and it's hard to tell which would be the best since they don't do the same thing. You can say that StP is better than Terror since it has no limitations, costs less and RFGs with the only downside being the lifegain, but it's hard to compare StP with Land Tax since they have totally different applications. The same applies to many of those creatures, some provide CA, some work as engines, some support engines, some accelerate your gameplay and some just beat for lots. 'Goyf is definitely the créme de la crop of the last one, but nothing in the others.


thank you finally someone gets it. tarmogoyf is probably the best at good old fashioned attacking and blocking. creatures do everything else to. pickles is a creature combo that locks down the game. its doing something totally diffrent then tarmogoyf
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