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Need Help with Doran Deck



 
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:56 pm    Post subject: Need Help with Doran Deck Reply with quote

Hi everyone... again!!!

I'd like to introduce you my aggro-combo-control deck with Doran:

4 Brushland
4 Llanowar Wastes
3 Swamp
4 Forest
2 Plains
3 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Forbidding Watchtower

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Treefolk Harbinger
3 Tarmogoyf
4 Ohran Viper
3 Timber Protector
3 Augur Il-Vec
3 Gaddock Teeg
4 Doran, the Siege Tower

3 Thoughtseize
3 Nameless Inversion
2 Stupor
2 Loxodon Warhammer

SDB:
1 Thoughtseize
1 Nameless Inversion
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Rootgrapple
3 Eyes of the Wisent
2 Quagnoth
2 Circle of Affliction
2 Extirpate

Strategy: put Doran in play and make all your weak 0 and 1 powered creatures into nasty killing machines!!

This deck has given to me very great results. I actually won a tourney with it one time. But it has been getting bad luck recently. Basically I need help with my sideboard and my spells. What cards do you think that might be better to this deck?

Once again, all your comments are very welcomed. Thank You!!

Lynolf (Maluko)
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DaShakAttack



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

needs more goyf.
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Wixit



Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's really no need for all the discard you have, only the thoughtseize is necessary. You do however, need more targeted remove. I suggest either 4 slaughter pact or 4 terror/shriekmaw.
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would glad to lend a hand. I will say the that best way to look at the deck is to look at it like an update to an older deck. Asume that every deck has been built before. Case in point my friends and I played WUR control in post Mirage standard. Back to your deck. Doran can best be looked at as a "Rock" update for standard. What we need to do is find the cards that best equate to the first list. So one to the "Rock" list.

4c Gifts Rock, as played by Gerardo Godinez Estrada:
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Llanowar Wastes
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Temple Garden
1 Breeding Pool
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
4 Windswept Heath
2 Polluted Delta

1 Genesis
1 Withered Wretch
1 Ravenous Baloth
3 Loxodon Hierarch
3 Wall of Roots
3 Eternal Witness
3 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Birds of Paradise

2 Vindicate
3 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Smother
2 Putrefy
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Living Wish
3 Gifts Ungiven

/Sideboard:
SB: 1 Cranial Extraction
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Global Ruin
SB: 1 Eternal Witness
SB: 1 Withered Wretch
SB: 1 Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 1 Loxodon Hierarch
SB: 1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
SB: 1 Ravenous Baloth
SB: 2 Darkblast
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Smother
SB: 1 Kami of Ancient Law

I guess the best place to start is with the spells. First off we have no spells that can match the raw power of Gifts. If there was a Gifts replacement then we should run it at all costs! Also with the only real bombs in blue right now are Aeon and Brine Elemental. I don't think that we will find a blue guy that will equal the power of Meloku. So that cuts the blue and gives us a chance for a better mana base.

Duress and Cabal Therapy could be an easy swap for Thoughtseize and Distress. Smother/Putrify are a bit harder to replace. I would say that 2 Teror and 3 Eyeblight's Ending ( untaps Glit-Leaf Palace ) would fill the rolls. Hmm on to the Deeds I thnk that this is the second hardest card to replace next to Gifts. Damnation/Wrath are the next best thing so 2 Damnation go in. ( More on that later. ) Living Wish is an easy swap for Glittering Wish. Also Vindicate is an easy swap for Oblivion Ring ( I wish that it could hit lands. )

As far beaters the deck style gains some and losses some. Four Birds? Check! Sakura land getter? We don't have a replacement for him so we should set aside his 3 slots for now. Loxodon Hierarch is the place holder for Doran! So that was simple. Genesis is a lost spot so that gives us 4 slots so far. Ravenous Baloth and Withered Wretch are like new free spots in the deck. I guess that you could fill the Baloth spot with one Sporeflower but whatever. Eternal Witness has a minor replacement. 1 Deadwood Treefolk ( Very pricey but good late game. ) in So 7 slots for the beats portion of the build. 3 Wall of Roots? Check!

I love the idea of having Vipers in the deck. So in goes 3 Vipers. 3 Timber Protectors seems the right number. Okie we have room for one more bomb. I would say that Teneb seems like the best choice for the last slot. What no Tarmogoyf? Sure it works but not to the max that it could be in the deck so no.

Ahh the mana base. This is going to be tough. We have no shock lands and no sac lands to get the shock lands. Well four Terramorphic Expance and 2 Gemstone Mines seem to fill the sac land roll for the most part. We have lots of mana fixing now with Expance, Birds, and Gemstone Mines. 3 Glit-Leaf Palace, 3 Horizion Canopy, 2 Urborg, 2 Treetop Village, and some basic lands.

So it is easier to port a deck in standard then you think. The setup a wishboard with Doran, Teneb, Harmonic Sliver, Teeg, Eriksdotter, and normal sb cards for the rest.
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Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear Crib Swap is good removal and goes along with Guilt Leaf Palace (which you should be playing).
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Berzerker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

why no oblivion rings? it is the most versatile removal, I say take out timber protector, augur il-vec, up the goyfs to 4 and add 4 oblivion rings and a few saffi eriksdotter. Also less hand control, this deck should play like aggro, and you only really need 3 Dorans, that is more than enough

I play a similar deck, but this is how mine looks:

Lands 22:
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Brushland
3 Horizon Canopy
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Treetop Village

Creatures 26:
4 Tarmagoyf
4 Treefolk Harbringer
3 Doran, the Siege Tower
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Wall of Roots
3 Ohran Viper
3 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Gaddock Teeg

Spells 12:
4 Oblivion Ring
1 Nameless Inversion
2 Crib Swap
2 Griffin Guide
3 Thoughtseize

Sideboard 15:
2 Loxodon Warhammer
4 Temporal Isolation
2 Quagnoth
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Mirror Entity
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PakTu



Joined: 29 Dec 2006
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say you play green and you only run 3 goyfs? is there something wrong with you Razz. how about some some glittering wish that way you can tech out your sb.
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks all of you for all your postings!!

I've came up now with some ideas. I will take down stupor and loxodon warhammer for sure from the main deck and the cards I'm considering are: Teneb, the Harvester; Glittering Wish; Removal like Oblivion Ring and "Terror" effects; and Gilt-Leaf Palace.

As for the sideboard, I guess I will withdraw Eyes of the Wisent and Circle of Affliction and put other cards.

I'm still considering which of these cards to add and if I chould take back any of the others.

I will post here when I have my definite idea. thanks again!

Lynolf (Maluko) Smile
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here it is:

2 Swamp
4 Forest
3 Plains
4 Brushland
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
2 Forbidding Watchtower
3 Terramorphic Expanse

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Treefolk Harbinger
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Mirri, Cat Warrior
4 Ohran Viper
3 Timber Protector
3 Augur il-Vec
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Doran, the Siege Tower

3 Thoughtseize
3 Nameless Inversion
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Glittering Wish

SDB:
1 Doran, the Siege Tower
1 Thoughtseize
1 Nameless Inversion
3 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Rootgrapple
2 Quagnoth
2 Extirpate
2 Teneb, the Harvester
1 Loxodon Warhammer

So... what do you think now? Still need more changes?

Lynolf (Maluko)
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What part of '4 Goyfs' did you miss? It's not only the biggest guy in the deck, it also gets bigger with Doran and is great alone. Drop down to 1 Timber Protector, fetch it as necessary. Augus il-Vec doesn't seem worth the slot; I'd rather play Saffi in its stead; mass discard doesn't seem good without something Rackish to capitalize on it. I'd try to make room for Oblivion Rings 3 and 4, and the 4th Thoughtseize. Those cards are all incredible, and O-Ring gives you MD outs to problems.

Your SB is a mess. What worthy cards are there in there? It seems like Glittering Wish just serves as a 5-mana Doran. Play solutions! At least you should have Harmonic Sliver and Gaddock Teeg there. Necrotic Sliver would be a nice SB Vindicate. I suppose Teneb takes the fatty-slot, but give thought to Mystic Enforcer (incredible against black decks) as a companion. I'd also get a 3rd Wish in there. What's up with the lack of Treetop Villages? The best manland in the format is in your main colour and you don't play it? Forbidding Watchtower is great with Doran in play, but horrible without it and the idea of manlands is that they survive sweepers. Also, get Mirri out of here. She has no business being in the deck, especially not over the 4th Goyf. Also, Nameless Inversion is horrible (especially when you play no tribal lands so you don't need it; Gilt-Leaf Palace should really just be Llanowar Wastes). Play Shriekmaw instead. A warm 3/2 Feary body against black and a Terror whenever in need.

That should help for starters.
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Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nameless Inversion is Last Gasp with Doran in play. I'm not a big fan of Doran.dec mainly because it doesn't seem to do much without Doran.
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Lynolf



Joined: 25 Aug 2007
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eldariel I liked your suggestions. I will replace my mirri with another Tarmogoyf and will add another glittering wish and some other multicolor cards to my sideboard.

The reason I don't put Treetop Village is because I tested my deck with it the first times and it's "tap" ability screwed me in some games and in others I almost didn't play it's reanimation ability so I decided to take it off.

About Gilt-Leaf Palace I still don't know if I will replace it.

But thanks for the suggestions once again! Keep commenting. Smile

Lynolf (Maluko)
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Eldariel
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acid_Christ wrote:
Nameless Inversion is Last Gasp with Doran in play. I'm not a big fan of Doran.dec mainly because it doesn't seem to do much without Doran.


You never cast Last Gasp unless it kills the opposing creature. This is a Goyf-format, so whether it gives minus to power is rather irrelevant as it doesn't remove the true threats. The suggestions I'm giving are precisely aimed to improve the games where Doran is elusive; Goyf is good without, as well as Viper et co. It just takes taking out sitiuational cards and you're fine.
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