Flipping Coins if opponent cant join

Enderdejoran · Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 13

I'm not 100% sure if this is the right area for this question, but it wouldn't happen if you weren't using apprentice.

Recently I joined a Sealed Tsp Block Apprentice Tourney. I got paired with someone, built my deck, saved it, and waited till time for the round to begin was called. Then I messaged my opponent to find that not only can he not host, but since he was at a coffee shop, he couldn't download hamachi. I can't host, but use hamachi and have never had any issues, but I know some people can't use it. But it wasn't that he couldn't -use- hamachi, he just wasn't able to download it anyway. I went to the judge saying since he couldn't play, he shouldn't of joined the tournament in the first place. Instead of that, he just said flip a coin.

My question, and really I would like to here discussion on both sides, is do you think this is fair? Since he knew he wasn't really able to use apprentice, shouldn't he have just not joined at all? Technically, we both couldn't host, but he couldn't even download hamachi, or a similar program, to see if it worked or not. And what is to stop people from just joining trials and relying on a coin flips rather than actually playing the game?

yho · Joined: 25 Nov 2004 Posts: 25

did u lost the coin flip?

lennin · Guest

thats the way the m-l system works and why apprentice is used less and less, i remember when there was barely any mws mins or trials and half the rounds were by flips. it sucks but there isnt really an alternative and is one of the reasons that m-l switched to mws as its main program. until they make the site fully compatoble with mws sealed theres nothing they can do and some people just have to bite the bullet.

Enderdejoran · Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 13

@yho

Yes I lost the coin flip, but that isnt what this is about. Its about whether or not it is fair to settle it via coin flip if you are able to ensure you can play, and they are not.

@lennin

I guess that's a good point, mostly i use MWS for tournaments or if my deck uses the sideboard via wishes because apprentice can't accommodate for that. Wouldn't it be more appropriate tho to say that if you can't make yourself available for a game, then you shouldn't join in the first place? or if you do join and u can't play then you should drop?

lennin · Guest

its a free league so you cant just say if u cant host you cant play, that wouldnt be right, if you had to pay or smt then it might be a problem but they cant just not let ppl play on the site its a free and open site that anyone can play on

Laplie · League Staff Joined: 31 Aug 2004 Posts: 535

This topic has been discussed to death.... You really should do a forum search.

The only reason I'm not instantly locking this topic is because its been a while since appr is being used less and less.

For apprentice tournaments, the ONLY 2 programs you need are apprentice and a web browser. Before hamachi, people who couldn't host used MWS and thought it was a good idea to require mws for people who couldn't host. Since hamachi, people want to require that program instead.

We feel that if someone want to play in an apprentice tourney, that's all they should need.

Also, Hamachi is BETA software, it screws up certain people's computer configurations, is a HUGE security risk, and only works on Windows XP and later.

Not being able to host is a 2-way street. Open up your ports by following directions at www.portforward.com

brottor · Joined: 01 Oct 2004 Posts: 437

metroman722 · Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Posts: 68

im not an authority on the issue or not and i think flipping is the best way to go if all options are exhausted.

also...why would it go to coinflip (this situation only)...if the other guy can't host and can't download hamachi...why let him go further. Joran said time was called and if the guy didn't have hamachi at that point and he was at a coffee shop, the next round was about to start and the same thing would have happened to the next guy.

for other situations where lets say both had hamachi and couldn't host...mws or coinflipping is the only way to go

to rap it up...

I'm thinking in elderjoran's case...he should have went on just by looking at the situation

but

the "guidline"..not rule.. should be coinflip in a case similar

lennin · Guest

Enderdejoran · Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 13

nico · Administrator Joined: 28 Oct 2003 Posts: 804

So, your opponent is not able to host, and that is why you cannot play? Then why don't you host? Oh, wait, maybe because you yourself cannot host either.
The point that all of you seem to be missing is that sometimes people don't have all the rights on the computer they are working on. Also, hamachi doesnot work on all systems, and even on systems that it should work on, it doesnot work as flawless as you want it to.
Point in case is: Flips is the least bad option, since imo both people are at fault if connection is impossible. someone may have more options (like hamachi) but they still are workarounds.
If you want to prevent hosting problems, learn how to work around the firewall, and learn to do portforwarding.

Greetz Nico

Goji · Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 102