explain me this ruling please.

unlying · Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 6

I can say only "omg"... nothing more...

My opp plays Brainstorms and twicely put it on top. So he played 4 brainstorms instead of 2. I know this is my fault too, but... I can't believe this ruling:

Fanboy · Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 424

Ummm yeah weird...I think that you have a log and them repeatedly doing it (implying that this is not just a mistake) would clearly show them cheating despite you not catching it at the time its made. So that would deffinitely be an auto win and dare i say in some tournaments maybe a drop from it or even a temporary ban if they have a record.

I'm not a judge so i don't know how ti would be handled...i do however know that they're intentionally cheating and you have proof soo yeah you should get a win for that round.

unlying · Joined: 28 Feb 2006 Posts: 6

and next part of story:

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 265

Hmm... this is a really weird mistake since he gets very little benefit from putting the Brainstorm back on top of the library (it throws off his further draws and the next Brainstorm has a lot smaller benefit, not digging nearly as deep). This makes me think the mistake was not intentional. Let me cover the bases:

First, this would be the lowest REL (Rules Enforcement Level) so the penalties should not be very severe, but in this case the penalties are the same no matter what the level.

Secondly, and in this he is correct, if you assume the mistake was not intentional (i.e. not cheating) both players get the same penalty, because both players are responsible for maintaining the game state and both of you failed to do so.

Thirdly, unless the error was caught right away, which it was not, you should not try to repair the game state, since nine out of ten times it's impossible and will not be done the same way consistently.

This all is governed by the following two rules (I bolded the important parts):

124. Game Play Error — Game Rule Violation

Definition
This infraction covers the majority of game situations in which a player makes an error or fails to follow a game procedure correctly. Note that this is different from entirely forgetting a game trigger, which is handled in Game Play Error — Missed Trigger, or a situation in which the game state itself is illegal, which is handled in Game Play Error — Illegal Game State.

Examples
A. In a Dreamblade tournament, a player forgets to pay extra spawn points for a miniature when that player does not have miniatures of the appropriate aspects in play or in the graveyard.
B. In a Magic tournament, a player plays Wrath of God for 3W (actual cost 2WW).
C. In a Magic tournament, a player does not attack with a creature that must attack each turn.
D. In a Magic tournament, a player puts Serra Avatar into their graveyard instead of shuffling it into their library.
E. In a Magic tournament, a player plays a Morph that is later revealed to not have the Morph ability. (Note that this penalty should be upgraded because it occurred in a private zone)
F. In a Magic tournament, a player fails to put a creature with lethal damage into a graveyard and it is not noticed until several turns later.
G. In a Dreamblade tournament, a player fails to assign blades before moving on to assign damage in combat.

Philosophy
While Game Rule Violations can usually be attributed to one player, they usually occur in a public zone and both players are expected to be mindful of what is happening in the game. It is tempting to try and "fix" these errors and reverse actions that have since been taken in the game, but it is important that all judges be able to apply these penalties consistently, regardless of their skill in the game, and thus only errors that are caught immediately should be fixed.

Penalty
All Levels
Warning

If the error was caught immediately, back up the game to the point of the error. If not caught immediately, leave the game state as it is. Additionally, if not caught immediately, the opponent should receive a Game Play Error — Failure to Maintain Game State penalty.

125. Game Play Error — Failure to Maintain Game State

Definition
This infraction is committed by a player who has allowed their opponent to commit a Game Play Error and has not pointed it out it immediately. If a judge believes a player is intentionally not pointing out their opponent’s illegal actions, either for their own advantage, or in the hope of bringing it up at a more strategically advantageous time, the infraction is Cheating — Fraud.

Examples
A. In a Magic tournament, a player's opponent forgets to discard a card to Masticore during their upkeep. It is not noticed until the end of turn.
B. In a Dreamblade tournament, a player’s opponent forgets to sacrifice a creature after spawning a creature with the Appease ability. The error is not noticed until the end of turn.

Philosophy
Games are, for the most part, played in public zones. If an error is caught immediately, then the dangers of the ongoing game state becoming corrupted are much lower. If the error is allowed to persist, at least some of the fault lies with the opponent, who has also failed to notice the error.

Penalty
All Levels
Warning

Judges should not usually upgrade this penalty, as players will be reluctant to call a judge if they believe that they could receive a significant penalty as a result.

So, to me, it seems the judge was right.

Meatwarz · Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 95

I believe misclicks should not be taken into account at all as it is never possible to prove if it was a misclick or just a poor play.

P.S.
And yeah, rulings in magic-league suck hard. Just prepare to it and get over.

Ironicus · Joined: 08 Jan 2006 Posts: 132

they sould add questions specific to m-l's problem in the judge test. A lot of judge don't know how to react when something like that happen. But Ronnan is suposed to be a good judge, I don't know why he did thta, maybe he's exausted.

Drizzs · Joined: 04 Sep 2004 Posts: 34

in REL 1 the ruling would be a warning, you need to catch those imediately if you see him put it on top you say u put it on top go to judges find out ruling he would say warning like hes supposed to and when he did it the second time he woulda gotten a gameloss, if you dont see it imediately then your also at fault and the warning does in fact go to both players........... Ronan was right with that ruling.

Avata · Joined: 03 Dec 2006 Posts: 370

yehudi · Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 86

people please stop bitching about the new policy we all know it sucks but its here to stay and for people who dont believe that this accualy happens irl check out the covarge of gp strassbourg and read how soem random played a extra land vs antoine ruel adn bye doing so could play a turn 5 morph with cancell back up
ruale notices this call the judge the judge rules the land is put back into hand but the cancell and the morph stay as played i know it weird but we have to live with this till they find a way to make it better