Hypothetical Situation Question

mankey · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 5

ok hypothetically lets say me and my opponent both have out.... a gargadon.... in play and were both at nine life. At the begining of my upkeep I cast honorable passage on his gargadon and he casts honorable passage on my gargadon.

A) I attack, who gets dealt the honorable passage damage first?

B) I use an Arena land effect and make the creatures deal their damage to eachother, who gets dealt damage first?

Thorns · Joined: 16 Aug 2006 Posts: 779 Location: Rath

I'm not sure if this situation is possible. If it would of been "Prevent the next # damage..." it wouldn't of worked because there was no damage to prevent. But the wording on Honorable Passage is pretty special... I'll answer the questions as if it were possible, but don't take my word as law.

A) The damage from your Gargadon is prevented, therefore it won't even hurt your opponent and you will take 9 damage.

B) In this situation, you would decide how to stack the damage as long as you do it during your turn. You would stack them in such a way so that your opponent loses first.

mankey · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 5

well the honorable passage text suggests that they do both do their damage, the gargadons that is, before it gets prevented, so the damage is prevented and both the honorables go off, but which goes first?

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 234

Prevented damage never happens, it replaces the damage with nothing.

If you attack with a Greater Gargadon which had a Honorable Passage played on it, your opponent would be wise to not block it. As soon as it tries to do damage to your opponent, that damage will prevented and you'll be dealt nine damage instead and you lose.

If for some reason he blocks with his Greater Gargadon which also had a Honorable Passage played on it, the two creatures will try to deal damage to each other at the exact same time. All the damage will be prevented and instead both of you will be dealt nine damage from your own Greater Gargadon, simultaneously. The game would then be a draw, as you lose at the exact same time.

FYI, I'm not guessing.

mankey · Joined: 15 Jun 2007 Posts: 5

first of all I'm aware that prevented damage never happens I was just clarifying how honorable was worded as opposed to just saying "prevent the next x damage" and yes thank you thats what I thought, its a tie. I've never heard of a tie from a play before, usually a player loses because of some ruling or some crap or a tie because a game goes on too long at a FNM.

sc4rs · Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 389

I once drew game 2 with Char in the Gruul mirror, and I ended up winning a match 2-0-1. It was fairly amusing. This seems like a very similar situation.

SaTiVa · Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 185

ok first of all u trgt what is going to recieve the dmg
not doing the dmg with the passage

but any ways

so if u trgt his dude and i guess choose urs as the source of dmg u each cast the spell to kill ur self!

but if u trgt ur gargon and his source u will both die same time b/c it is a replacement affect/effect and will go at same time

so in short draw in both cases and the game wont count

this is at least what i think of ur wonky situation

toguppy · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 296

ok correct me if im wrong but honroable passage actually puts an effect o the stack that triggers IF the damage is dealt. now as the effects trigger doesnt that mean that they use the stack wich causes the active players honorable passae to be put on the stack first as damage IS dealt simultaneously. this means the active player would die.

Thorns · Joined: 16 Aug 2006 Posts: 779 Location: Rath

Hardtrack · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 234

Honorable Passage has no triggered abilities.

Once again, a triggered ability starts with when, whenever or at. If it does not use those words, it's not a triggered ability. This is a hard rule, it always applies.

Once the spell resolves, none of it effects will be ever put on the stack again, it's one big replacement/prevention effect that applies immediately.

SaTiVa is right that it depends on who you are targetting. But most people won't even play a spell like Honorable Passage until the damage is on the stack and they know where it is going.

This also somewhat invalidates the question, since noone would play a Honorable Passage during the upkeep, because they wouldn't know what to target yet, that depends on how the combat goes.