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Blood Moon rules questions


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aldaryn



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:27 am    Post subject: Blood Moon rules questions Reply with quote

I've been screwed both ways on these rulings, so please let me know the official rules and if possible point me to specific rule #s for these...

I know nonbasic lands are still nonbasic under Blood Moon,

but

1) Do come into play effects still trigger? I.e. do I have to pay 2 life for Stomping Ground or bounce for a karoo under Blood Moon?

2.) Is Hallowed Fountain still a Plains and an Island?

I think there was something else, but I forget. Thanks.

aldaryn
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1)
Triggered cip abilities won't trigger (at,when,whenever) ->
you dont have to bounce a land for bouncelands

Static abilities still work, as these don't take effect in play, they apply before the land comes into play-> Blood Moon does not affect HOW a Stomping Ground comes into play (you can pay2 life)

2) Hallowed Fountain is Land - Mountain only.
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aldaryn



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ugh, friggin guy playing Vore screwed me over then.

Ok, so you're saying for Ravnica duals, I can pay 2 life if I feel like it, but I can put it into play untapped as a Mountain without paying 2 life?

And for Karoos, I don't have to bounce a land? And it doesn't come into play tapped?

Jerk told me I couldn't play the Karoo I had left as a Mountain with no bounce, and Cryoclasmed my Hallowed Fountain under Blood Moon...

Are there rules I can look up for this?

Thanks...

aldaryn

EDIT
So the "come into play" things don't trigger because only a mountain ever comes into play...but for Ravnica duals that's "AS it comes into play" so I can pay 2 life, but if I don't, the other CIP ability doesn't happen anyway, right?
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

it will still come into play tapped unless you pay 2 life
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aldaryn



Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 501

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, and that's because it's an "as comes into play," and not a "when comes into play" ?
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onecleanceli



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

correct... duals come into play tapped, as a mountain, unless u pay 2 life
karoos come into play tapped, as a mountain, and you dont bounce
duals are mountains only, not the other land types they read

edit: mistyped, and was corrected by flippi... karoos still come into play tapped, but as a mountain, with no bounce effect


Last edited by onecleanceli on Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SaTiVa
Level 1 Judge


Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Posts: 289

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

another blood moon question .... does it change the Non-basic land part?


ie if back to basics was in play as well would they untap during controllers untap phase?
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it changed the non-basic part, blood moon would no longer apply/affect the land.

non-basics remain non-basic.
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onecleanceli



Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 398

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so you're saying detritivore can still destroy non-basic lands even if blood moon is in play, correct?

and the universal timing question... blood moon is in play, someone plays urborg, blood moon turns urborg into a mountain with no abilities to allow all other lands to become swamps, correct? i.e. blood moon overrides urborg??
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ant900



Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 2525
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

onecleanceli wrote:
so you're saying detritivore can still destroy non-basic lands even if blood moon is in play, correct?

and the universal timing question... blood moon is in play, someone plays urborg, blood moon turns urborg into a mountain with no abilities to allow all other lands to become swamps, correct? i.e. blood moon overrides urborg??

since urborg is a non basic land it is turned into a mountain by blood moon, and since it is only a mountain it loses all other abilities, no mater which order they came into play. so yes blood moon trumps urborg
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st4x



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blood moon does not trump urborg it depends what comes into play last, if blood moon is in play and i play urborg all non basics are swamps and mountains but if there is an urborg in play then blood moon is played they are mountains
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Blah234



Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrong, ant. If u knew about layering, u'd kno that if Urborg came in AFTER Blood Moon, that Urborg still applies so non-basics will Mountain AND Swamp.
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derflippi
Level 4 Judge


Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1402
Location: Weiterstad

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ant900 is correct

418.5c dependency

Since Urborg is dependend on Urborgs ability, it's applied after Blood Moon. However it won't have the ability once it's turned into a Mountain.

->
Blood Moon trumps Urborg, reagrdless of what came into play first.

418.5c: An effect is said to “depend on” another if (a) it’s applied in the same layer (and, if applicable, sublayer) as the other effect (see rule 418.5a) and (b) applying the other would change the text or the existence of the first effect, what it applies to, or what it does to any of the things it applies to. Otherwise, the effect is considered to be independent of the other effect.
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st4x



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 358

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is from scg.com where they have an actual dci judge

Q: What is the interaction between Blood Moon and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgoth?

A: It depends on the order that these two permanents come into play. If Blood Moon came into play last, then non-basic lands will be just Mountains and will, therefore, only have one mana ability, which generates red mana. If Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth cames into play last, then non-basic land will have both the basic land subtypes of Mountain and Swamp and will have two mana abilities, one that make red mana and another that makes black mana. This is because you apply these two effects according to timestamp order, and Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth's effect specifies that these lands keep all of their old types, where Blood Moon does not.
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CookieCutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 8
Location: ATL

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing you might want to look out for:

If a Blood Moon is in play and you have a Legendary Land, it is still considered Legendary. So if two Legendary Lands are in play, (say Flagstones of Trokair and Pendelhaven) and a Blood Moon, they will impode upon each other.

Wink
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