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Swiss Tournaments



 
Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Magic-League Tournaments

Would you like to see Swiss Tournies?
Yes
88%
 88%  [ 15 ]
No
11%
 11%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 17

Author Message
CookieCutter



Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 8
Location: ATL

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:06 pm    Post subject: Swiss Tournaments Reply with quote

Where are they?

I was wondering, why doesn't the site encourage them? Why aren't we having them now?

Recently WildCard advertized a Swiss tourny but it was rejected. Why? Afterall, with the masters being run with DCI reporter, why not all tournaments?

IRL, the DCI uses Swiss to organize all tournies, no matter how large. We here at mL try to create testing enviornments for real game play and to get an accurate read for how strong a deck is on the tournament scene. Wouldn't this help us accomplish that?

It really sucks to see someone play a really good stack of 60 and lose round one of a trial to an unwinnable matchup. I believe that this would not only provide a better testing envornment, but also healthier game play.

Thoughts?
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coolcreep



Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Posts: 588

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

!support
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R3wind



Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 1386

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am all for it also! I do not play in many tournys due to the fact that I always seem to get paired with the one match that my deck can't win! Haha... I really do like Swiss much better.
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niknight



Joined: 14 Oct 2004
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer the primary question:

We don't run swiss because the site does not support swiss tournaments. With all of the work currently being put into designing the new site, I doubt that we will see this added any time in the near future.

Next, to answer why we don't use dcir:

First, not everyone has dci reporter. Secondly, even if all judges do have it, only J2's + have access to the ratings database to input the matches. Third, manually adding matches to the site's database can seriously screw up the site if done incorrectly (it has happened in the past).
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ant900



Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 2525
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it has to do with the fact that the site doesn't support swiss tournaments. Supposedly the new site will though
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Bigshow



Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1374
Location: Igloo town

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it takes too long for everything, unless you do standings :/
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Gerrardfo



Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 361

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if we did not use dci-r for tournaments and just set all of the dropped players to active, only the j2+ users would be able to run swiss tournaments. That would lead to problems with j1s wanting to run swiss tournaments and requiring a j2 almost every waking moment.

Moreover, if any mistakes were made with messing with the status of players in a mini, that would cost players points; there are already enough issues as it stands. Nico has said no.
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NahHolmes



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about instead of a new site you just add swiss to this one.
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Haro
Level 3 Judge


Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 265

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me ask you guys something.

Do you like finishing your match in 15 mins then waiting 35+ minutes for a control vs control matchup to finish?
How about if you are 2-0 and you are waiting for a 0-2 control vs control match to finish?

That is what most likely will end up happening if swiss happens.
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Laplie



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 561

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aside from the technical and logistical problems with implementing swiss, swiss just isn't that great of a format for smaller tournies.

Swiss with 8 people? gotta be kidding.
Swiss with 16 people? you still pretty much have to be undefeated to make a top4 cut.

For swiss to work well, you usually want 32+ players.

The second big problem is time. Imagine if every round of a trial was as long as the first, then add 3 more rounds to the usual length for the top8 cut. With trials, the amount of player problems decrease as people are eliminated. With swiss, the player numbers wont really decrease till 4th round or so.


A much better option would be to have Double elimination for trials and large minis. While its a little hard to grasp the concept (winner's braket and loser's braket) for people that have never seen one in action, its only slightly harder to implement than single elimination, and MUCH MUCH easier than swiss. Also, time-wise it only takes slightly longer than single-elim, and there isn't a top4/8 cut. Someone would still need to program it though.[/url]
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WoodSage



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from the technical problems: Ok, it's understandable that Swiss for smaller tournaments (8/16 players) is not a good format.

But I agree that Trials would be far better if they were Swiss with a cut to top X (doesn't have to be top 8, could be top 4 or top 16 if you want to).

The time problem is the real deal-breaker.

If Swiss can't be implemented, I'd like to see the double elimination you propose.

I'd really like to be able to play more than one game in a tournament structure with the same deck.
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