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Browbeat vs. Dash Hopes


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Reply to topic    Magic-League.com Forum Index -> Standard (T2) Decks

Browbeat or Dash Hopes?
Browbeat
45%
 45%  [ 11 ]
Dash Hopes
54%
 54%  [ 13 ]
Total Votes : 24

Author Message
LaminateStas



Joined: 20 May 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:04 pm    Post subject: Browbeat vs. Dash Hopes Reply with quote

As the title states. I thought this was actually a pretty interesting debate, because both (aside from a few instances) are generally poor cards because of the fact your opponent gets the choice.

Personally, My vote goes to Dash, because it really can be good in the right circumstances. I've found it incredibly beneficial in a deck I'm running, and I think the idea fits an aggro strategy quite well. Browbeat on the other hand just never does anything good enough.

Anyways, opinions?
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Berzerker



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 56

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally would have to go with browbeat, simply because it can rock in a burn deck. Your opponent has a choice of either taken 5 damage right away or letting you draw more burn to deal 5 damage to them anyway. But then again they just counter it anyways if thats the case.
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Eldar



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 435
Location: Rochester

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to go with dash hopes seeing as in either mbc or even mba it is good either way. If you play it in agro it either gets rid of a spell such as wrath or makes them eat an additional 5 damage and in both decks when they are at 5 or less a hard counter seems better than drawing three cards most of the time. The counter or 5 life is good either way whereas most of the time browbeat does 5 for the first time or is just three mana draw three cards and hope they are good.
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PhyrePhox



Joined: 28 May 2006
Posts: 40

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

only bad players think dash hopes or browbeat are any good. they are both bad because they never give you what you want
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iKe



Joined: 14 Dec 2005
Posts: 530
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are both pretty Bad I would say Dash is better but only slightly. The only Decent card in t2 that gives your opponent a choice is maybe Temporal Extortion
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Magx



Joined: 07 Sep 2004
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cagefiter wrote:
only bad players think dash hopes or browbeat are any good. they are both bad because they never give you what you want


Not true.. they give you SOMETIMES what you want.. if not counterspelled.

by the way, this poll sucks.. what do you like better ? apple or oranges ? you can't compare those two things
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AlexTrebek



Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Posts: 148

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "you never get what you want" argument is pretty lame.

Would you pay BB for a hard counter - obv.
Would you pay BB for 5 damage - obv.
Would you pay 2R to draw 3 cards - obv.
Would you pay 2R to deal 5 damage to an opponent - That's up for debate but most time yes.

In an aggro deck, it doesn't matter if you don't get to choose because your tempo should dictate what they choose anyway.

In a control deck, yes they both suck.
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Bozo



Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 107

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're both bad, ut browbeat is much better because it is at least a proactive card, rather than a reactive card that gives your opponent the choice.
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Jacois



Joined: 05 Sep 2004
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say Dash Hopes is better cause it's life lose, meaning it can get around Worship and that new Ali from Cairo chick.

Of course, Lava Axe is better than both. I think Lava Axe should have been included in the poll.
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Acid_Christ



Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 799

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really see either as bad cards. They belong in aggro decks. Counter your Wrath or take 5. Let me draw 3 more threats or take 5.
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Noob3



Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dash Hopes sucks because any card that has a casting cost of BB has high expectations to live up to. Hymn to Tourach, Sinkhole, Nantuko Shade & now even Smallpox. But, Dash Hopes? This card is a waste of mana. It's like running 4 counterspells that won't even counter 50% of the spells it targets. And no other hard counters!

Now Browbeat is another story, it's awful in constructed but if your have an aggressive limited red deck with lots of removal, 1x browbeat will be your best friend! I can't count how many games the 5 life swing or the drawing of the 3 cards (probably netting 5+ life via creatures/creature removal) has won me a game. IN LIMITED!

Now Dash Hopes I wouldn't pick in a draft unless it was unfortunatley pick 15 Mad
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The thing is, these cards are both sure great when you have 2-3 creatures on the board and your opponent at 5-10 life points, but they do little when your opponent has control of the board.


What about in the first 1-5ish turns of the game, where neither player has a clear advantage, and they may be at a highish life total but obviously do not have "control of the board" yet?

Savannah Lions is a bad card when your opponent has control of the board too. But if it deals your opponent 4 damage for 1 mana in the first two turns, it's served its purpose. Likewise, if you Dash Hopes an early spell that your opponent pays 5 life for, then it's a great burn spell, and if they let it be countered, it's a tempo advantage. Either way, you win for an agro deck.

On the other hand, Browbeat in the first 1-5 turns, if they let you draw the 3 cards, is essentially a Compulsive Research (since if you play it on turn 3 or 4, you'll probably have to discard a card or two at EOT to get back to 7) and no agro deck would play Compulsive Research, because agro isn't going for card advantage. It's going for a combination of keeping tempo and trading cards for damage. This is why Browbeat is bad in agro (where they will let you draw 3 cards most of the time) and bad in control (where 5 damage doesn't matter until you're already winning the game most of the time). Dash Hopes has two effects that are good for agro (gaining tempo and dealing 5 damage for 2 mana in a color with no burn spells) so IMO it is clearly better.
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Apos



Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 757

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

both sux
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sc4rs



Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 859

PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Onkel420 wrote:

Don't even dare to compare the mighty Savannah Lions to the crappy Dash Hopes! If Savannah Lions has dealt 4 damage to your opponent, it's still around, so your opponent needs to get rid of it or block it (but then again, you have other creatures that need to be blocked too).

Chances are, your opponent will only pay 5 life for the spell if it's effect is worth 5 life, this means that you'll never counter anything relevant. Don't get me wrong, compared to Borwbeat, this is indeed better, but it's still a really, really bad card. Think about it, the do test the cards before they release them (at least to some degree), if Dash Hopes would be somewhat playable at all, they wouldn't have made it common.


Wild Mongrel, Basking Rootwalla, Frogmite, Disciple of the Vault, Deep Analysis, Mogg Fanatic, Counterspell, and in type two, Momentary Blink, Seething Song, Rite of Flame, Castigate, all the Signets.

Yeah, none of those commons are playable, huh? I stopped after searching for 3 minutes. Every common has the capacity to be good, if not very good. If you just say "Dash Hopes is the same as Browbeat, and Browbeat is bad, so Dash Hopes is bad," you will invariably miss a card that is playable because you refuse to test it or listen to logical arguments that explain why a card is good.

I'm NOT SAYING Dash Hopes is as good as Savannah Lions. That would be idiotic. What I AM saying is that Dash Hopes is good in just as many situations as Savannah Lions (in the early game and when you're winning/they're at a low life total) and Savannah Lions is bad in the same situations that Dash Hopes is bad (when your opponent has board control and is at a high life total.)

Therefore, I'm saying that the arguement that Dash Hopes is bad simply because it's a dead card when your opponent is winning is NOT A GOOD ARGUEMENT, because Savannah Lions is a dead card too when your opponent is winning, but agro still plays it. Why? Because it works in the early game to get damage through or when your opponent is up against the ropes to hit them for the last few points of damage. Dash Hopes does the exact same two things, and for that reason in an agressive deck like G/B or mono B agro with A: no better counterspells and B: no better burn spells, it is definitely a playable card.
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