tweaking Boros in 1.x

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 450

I played Affinity last time, but next week for our city champs Extended tourney, I'm trying Boros, as it isn't as obviously hosed as Affinity is (P. Deed, Kataki, both of which were present). The turnout wasn't big, but here are the decks I expect to see in the room, probably evenly distributed:

Affinity
No-Stick
Flow Deck Wins
GRb Aggro Loam
UW Tron/Post
Gifts Rock
TEPS
MAYBE Trinket Angel, not likely.

I'm actually expecting to be the only Boros player. I have been thinking about this deck for a while, looking mostly from Karsten's green splash version and other top decks from Worlds. There are so many card options but here is what I came up with.

The green splash - I don't think it's worth it. In RW you pretty much NEED to bolt yourself once to get a foundry, for turn 2 knight/priest, turn 3 molten rain. You don't want bolt yourself the first 2-3 turns just to get a 2/3 kird ape. Lame. Also, in SB he used armadillo cloak and ancient grudge, both of which are good, but i think you need a disenchant-effect (i'm using ronom unicorn since it's a dude) because of some tough enchantments i could face, like ascetic + worship, etc. And armadillo cloak is good but like I said I don't expect much other Red aggro except Flow Deck Wins which I think I can beat anyway. Also, he played 14 1-drops with ape, 12 with 4 isamaru is not that much of a discrepancy(sp).

Lava Dart - you need it. So many x/1's in this format - dark confidant, eternal witness, grim lavamancer, savannah lions, blinkmoth nexus, etc etc etc. I side it out against non-aggro decks.

Char - I'd like to fit it in, but I can't justify taking out anything else.

Goblin Legionnaire - I was convined this guy was better than Soltari Priest...but not against decks where you NEED to get points through via evasion...plus post sb slap a jitte on, swing just with him, and stock those counters up. Legionnaire is still good, even with sudden shock around (again, not much red here), but priest is better.

Here's what I currently have.

4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Savannah Lions
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Soltari Priest
4 Silver Knight

4 Firebolt
4 Sudden Shock
4 Lightning Helix
4 Molten Rain
3 Lava Dart

1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
4 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Sacred Foundry

SB:
4 Ronom Unicorn
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Sulfuric Vortex

Some thoughts.

Seems like a lot of basics, but it seems to me the most impotrant thing is just to fetch an early foundry, for WW/RR, then just fetch basics....do i really need battlefield forge? Also, should I be hunting for barbarian rings? Seems like they could really screw you, though they could finish off No-Stick after a hard lock..I could use Eiganjo Castle but I don' think it's going to make or break me.

So my sideboarding would be

-4 Silver Knight +4 Ronom Unicorn any time I need it...maybe sometmies take our Priest if you'll need to block big guys (like against affinity?)
-4 Molten Rain +4 Umezawa's Jitte against aggro decks...pretty obvious.
-4 Firebolt +4 Pyrostatic Pillar against TEPS and No-Stick...or should I take out Sudden Shock? I figured it was more impotrant to take out sorceries if the stick comes down early.
-3 Lava Dart +3 Vortex against any decks with angels, hierarchs, whatever.

Against that field I listed above, would you change anything? There are so many other options, especially in SB...rule of law, tormod's crypt, pithing needle, etc.

I should mention that there is about a 0% chance of any Ichorid, or other Boros decks, but there may be more Rock or Tron than I suspect.

any help appreciated

aldaryn

Magx · Joined: 07 Sep 2004 Posts: 339

I am pretty sure you will NOT be the only one Boros player ! Unless other players are hidden in a cave and/or not playing magic for years

Why not Jitte in main deck ? It would either kill/faster or make you survive longer ... I would, especially if you expect a lot of control players, but you never know...

but side'em out against green in case they run Krosan Grip where it would be useless..

and no Paladin en Vec, NOwhere ? you have to have that -> Petrify, mortify, last gasp, dark blast and those are just the more played and there is other cards. . . oh and beware of Edicts, that could hurt a lot

Taoofss · Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 308

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 450

+1 taoffs

Look, I know my local metagame, the place is not that big. I'd put big money down that I will be the only guy there running Boros.

Why do I want to last longer against control? I want short games. In this deck, 4 to play/equip jitte is slow, and it doesn't even do anything that time, damage wise. I'd much rather be destroying lands or burning their dome.

If they want to spend 3 mana to mortify/pUtrEfy (petrify??) my 1cc and 2cc dorks, that is fine by me. Darkblast will not kill Silver Knight, and it will not kill Silver Knight for 1 mana less than not killing Paladin En-Vec.

I have never seen a competitive Extended running Last Gasp. It is certainly viable...but unlikely.

Umm anyone else?

seb_ · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 53

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 450

I might switch it back to Disenchant...No-Stick is a good point.

The priest's evasion, along with pro-red, matter in matchups other in the mirror - flow deck wins, aggro loam, and trinket angel...all of those decks, although the latter two really aren't R/x beatdown, rely on red burn for spot removal - trinket angel has jitte, but aggro loam has no real obvious answer (maybe putrefy). But I'm certainly still on the fence about Legionnaire vs Priest...I don't think it's worth splitting though, it's either 4 of one or the other.

edit: thanks for the last gasp correction Wink

yavin1 · Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 143

jitte isn't worth it main deck. Also, as far as critters go, i feel gobbo legionerre (spelling) is much better than priest, cuase deed is aroudn and that gives priest 2 turns to attack max, while legionerre can deal up to 4 dmg ot a creature, and also prevent jitte equiped critters from dealing dmg. YOU NEED IT! Also, lava dart 4 copies and firebolt 3. its just better, cuase its too instances of 1 dmg and at instant speed. In the SB, run dwarven blast miner or get raped up the butt by tron/control.

Shooter · Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Posts: 66

I am still not convinced about sudden shocks. They are REALLY good if you play vs. A LOT of togs/mirror/affinity. Tog isn't that good for the meta, and affinity is not that big problem.
You need more fetches and at least 2 barbarian rings. I like 22 lands too.
Probably something like this:
3 isamaru
4 lions
4 lavamancer
4 silver knight
4 soltari priest/goblin leggionaire (play priest just on a redfull meta, like aggro-loams,mirror and flow deck wins)
4 lava dart
4 firebolt
4 helix
3 char
4 molten rain
2 barbarian ring
1 shinka
1 eiganjo
3 wooded foothills
3 windspeath heath
2 bloodstained mire
2 flooded strand
4 sacred foundry
2 plains
2 mountain

3 disenchant
4 pillar
4 jitte
3 vortex
1 char

vs. controls I will take out the darts for vortex and char. Vs. Tog and Scepter take out the molten rains and put in the pillars too. Vs. Aggros you take out chars and molten rains and put jittes and disenchant (jitte wins =[)

cya

Taoofss · Joined: 22 Dec 2004 Posts: 308

+2 barb rings

seb_ · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 53

blastminer in boros sideboard pretty sucks Wink

play the mu with and without a couple of times and you will see

even if there is no tog (e.g.) in your meta you need sudden shock md since it is 2 mana 2 dmg instant UNCOUNTERABLE too. so along with 2 barb rings (yes you need at least 2, even if he has dissynergie with lavamancer), even if the opp has the board control and the hand stuffed with counters you can still deal the final 4(6) whatever sometimes^^

aldaryn · Joined: 02 Sep 2004 Posts: 450

I've considered going to 22 land, but I've been ok with 21.

I have been on the fence on Sudden Shock too. 1R for 2 isn't much, but it IS uncounterable. Even though Affinity isn't a huge problem, it is prevalent, and so is Flow Deck Wins + Aggro Loam (Wild Mongrel). Otherwise Wild Mongrel stares my 2/2 dudes down all day long. To be honest I'd rather even be playing Magma Jet..I love that card. anyway, I can't really justify Char over Sudden Shock, as much as I want to include Char.

I really don't expect to see a single Psychatog, though. I don't have any other fetchlands, so I'm content to stick with the 4/4 model, despite any pithing needles that may show up (if they have any brains it'll be on grim lavamancer anyway).

I think I will take all the common advice and scoop up some Barbarian Rings, and an Eiganjo while I'm at it.

While I'm trying to pick burn spells...how essential do you guys consider Molten Rain? Is it ideal, I don't know. I have played the deck a lot but I've never even considered taking it out...it's still 2 dmg late, and is huge if you draw it early, though maybe a very weak shock late in the game, but still.

Random aside 1 - I did mess around with 8 LD version (Pillage) but it seemed clunky and slow.

Random aside 2 - Counterbalance can still counter Sudden Shock, right? If they're lucky enough to have a 2cc on the top? (since they can't respond with sensei's) Just checking...it's triggered, not activated, right?

Thanks for the tips, time to go pick up the barb rings. Keep it coming...Any and all advice welcome...I'll sort through and take what I can.

Edit: I completely missed yavin1's post. I think Blastminer is too slow, personally.

As for the legionnaire vs. priest... I understand all the advantages of Legionnaire, I'm still thinking about this one...but not many of the decks I listed run jitte (flow deck wins in sb, trinket angel) and many of them run 2/2 random guys that block my legionnaire (meddling mages, wild mongrels, trinket mages, wall of roots, anything in flow or affinity) when sometimes I can just keep pushing through with priest if they have no answer (also, only rock seems to use deed, and that's 1 deck out of 6 or 7)..I'm really not sure at all, but I'm still learning towards priest.

seb_ · Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 53

if they have a cc2 on top yes ;-/

i see your point on priest, and i think you should test, and as alm ost everything, its a metagame choice^^

MassO · Joined: 10 Mar 2006 Posts: 26

Well, Enduring Ideal will rape you i believe, especially after sb when the Sphere of Law comes which basically shuts your deck down. Yes you have white creatures, but anyone that plays glare, rifter/slide, anything with white is going to be playing atleast 3 copies of SoL and those decks have wraths and or vengence and glare will hurt too, just because of the overwhelming use of boros at Worlds and other Ptq's. g/w slide also may be having those in the board.

What i dont get is why people would play decks that have the ability to be completely stopped my one card.

top decks in 1.x atm i believe before PC:

Boros: sphere of Law and after Pc Poly nodes

affinity: kataki, shattering spree, nodes will hurt also

gobs: Sphere of law is an auto scoop unless they get the grappler, so just kill it, engineered plague,

ichorid: leyline of the void, tormods crypt, morningtide, ect....list goes on, extipitate is going to suck for this deck also

TePS: trickbind, pschogenic probe is definitely the most amazing tech to use against this deck, rule of law

flowrock(which i call Maxiepad): no one card to shut this down, Chalice of the void for 3 would kill this deck but try to come up with that before turn 2, HaHa. I dont like this deck because it is more reactive more than proactive but has alot of evasive creatures

AggroLoam: Pithing needle on the assault or mongrel will put a stamper in this deck alos, so will Tormid Crypt or Leyline of the void. Sphere of Law also puts a big whole in the deck as long as you have removal back up for the green critters

U/w tron: Destructive Flow or blood moon on turn 2 usually allows this to be an auto win.

GiftsRock: whoever is playing this is prolly netdecking or a newb so u shouldnt have much of a problem as long as u play a smarter game. * i also dont like playing cards that allow my oppen. to choose what i can or cannot do unless no matter what they choose helps me in the end.

No-stick: Im going to be honest, ive never seen this deck in action heard alot about it and i have seen a couple of list, but looks to me to be alot like trisket to me. So i cant really comment about this.

That seems to bee all the decks which you are expecting to see plus a few more which are tier 1 or 2 which may randomly show up at a tourney.

Sphere of Law is a great choice for the board if you play any control deck with white, since it hurts the most decks on this list. Tormods crypt is also a great choice but if you are playing white why not play morningtides?. With the decks you have listed and are expecting to play either R/W rifter with main deck dampening matix's would prolly be your best bet i think, it walks over affininty, gobs, loam, giftsrock and flowrock, with sb help you could easily get the win over nostick, trisket and teps.

Boros would do good against about half of these decks but after boarding, your going to get screwed. The only reason boros was so good at worlds was maybe because over 3/4 of the players played it. so if boros plays boros, a boros will always come out the winner and i prolly guarentee that some of the players, that played boros, prolly played against all boros during the tourney, it wouldnt suprise me.

Well, I hope you do well at the tourney no matter what u choose to play. Good luck and i hope ive been helpful

Acid_Christ · Joined: 28 Aug 2004 Posts: 502

I have been trying to tweak a WW with md Suppression Field. Fetchlands say "2, T, Pay 1 life.."
tog says "2, discard..; 2, remove two.."
Mongrel/Loam says "2, discard.."
Legionairre says "2R, sac.."
etc.

jheezy · Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 167