Worse Than Fish

gnr61 · Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 19

Pretty much, this is a decklist I've been working on for a while now, pretty much since it died. I hadn't seen anyone playing WTF (essentially green/blue fish) in a while, so I figured I'd try to make it as good as possible just to see if it really sucked. Actually Ive had a good bit of success with this deck, and only have a few really bad matchups. Basically, this list has a lot of big changes from the old builds (including the addition of white) that IMO are really benefitial:

Mana (20):
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
3x Flooded Strand
3x Tropical Island
1x Tundra
1x Savannah
1x Strip Mine
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl

Creatures (18 ):
4x Meddling Mage
4x Wild Mongrel
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Gaea's Skyfolk
2x Ninja of the Deep Hours

Artifacts (9):
4x Chalice of the Void
3x Aether Vial
2x Umezawa's Jitte

Spells (13):
4x Force of Will
4x Brainstorm
2x Daze
2x Stifle
1x Ancestral Recall

Sideboard (15):
4x Null Rod
4x Ray of Revelation
3x Tormod's Crypt
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x True Believer

Concept is pretty simple: get out 2/2s etc and some control cards, get a light lockdown, swing with 2/2s till they die. In a meta with alot of tendrils combo decks, this list reigns supreme. With MD Mages, Stifles, FOWs, and Chalices, and SB True Believers, Rods, and Crypts, well I've only lost to one tendrils deck, and that was because I couldn't hit green mana 2 games in a row (cuz I suck at making manabases). Most matchups improve hugely post SB if they weren't very good before. Oath is a OK matchup before and great post SB. The real weakness against Oath is if they get it first/second turn with Forbidden Orchard and I don't have enough FOWs or Rays to handle it. However Meddling Mage is a gem in this matchup. Mage is the key reason why I even added white. One of the main weaknesses of WTF as opposed to standard UW Fish is the lack of utilities from not playing white. The SB also obviously benefitted from adding white.
The one REALLY bad matchup I've found is stax. I get raped left and right by smokestacks, tangle wires and crucibles. Mage can only do so much, but the matchup has been so bad in the past that I havn't even bothered with major tech for it. The deck also doesn't fare too well against creature-based decks and random aggro crap.

So yeah that's essentially it; any help or criticism is greatly welcome (especially in terms of the mana base).
thanks

_bouncyer_ · Joined: 01 Sep 2004 Posts: 129

Kataki/Energy FLux fix the stacks matchup obv

-Bouncy

gnr61 · Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 19

They only give you a slight edge in a game that will probably end badly anyway, but Kataki would be good for combo as well. I like Kataki better than Flux for this because it has a body and can be dropped with Vial, so its usable maindeck, but I wouldn't be sure what to take out..

Phreek · Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Posts: 34

I would run 3x Kataki main and 1x in the side for sure. Not only does he house Stax but can also slow down explosive starts for other decks by tying down their mana. He's a general pain in the ass and can often buy you an extra 2-3 turns that you wouldn't have had otherwise. I would replace the Skyfolk because they don't do anything. The flying ability is negated by the fact that it's T1 and you won't be having many creature battles with most decks.

I'm not sure if you missed it or did it on purpose but you're missing Black Lotus and Time Walk. I would move the Jitte's SB for those two. Lotus gives a significant mana ramp up which is always useful, and Time Walk, is well Time Walk.

Also, I'm a bit unsure about the Ninja's. You only have 4 one drop's in the deck and only 2 Ninja's. Getting a turn 2 Ninja would be hard I would imagine. I'm also not sure whether he's worth the tempo loss to return other creatures other than the Rootwalla on turn 3 or 4.

I would also try to add 3-4 Swords to Plowshares main deck as well. It's good in every matchup except non-creature based combo. It stops Dragon, gets rid of Welder in Stax decks, gets rid of creatures in aggro/aggro-control matchups, gets rid of DSC, stops Akroma and Razia, etc. The only matchup where it's really dead is against Long variants.

For the sideboard True Believer slots, you'd be better off using Orim's Chant. While the Believer vs. Chant argument is always debated in UW Fish, I think your deck has a harder time getting WW. Orim's Chant does almost everything TB can do, albeit at the cost of not being able to beatdown.

kokusho6 · Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 58

why do you play daze over force spike?

Phreek · Joined: 29 Oct 2005 Posts: 34

gnr61 · Joined: 24 Jul 2005 Posts: 19

Heres the changes thus far:

-2 Ninja (not particularly useful really)
-2 Jitte (it's done well, but usually if I've got it out with counters, I'm probably pretty well-off anyway)
-1 Skyfolk (even just as something to drop w/ vial, they add well to a stack of 2/2s and fly over confidants, grunts, gobos, any fish creatures. even flying over collossus has won me more than one game)

+3 Kataki (working terrificly against anything w/ moxes and stax, though its still a tough matchup)
+1 Time Walk (pricey, but probably good enough to include)
+1 Daze (it was saving me so often I had to add 1 more, plus its good for FoW fodder if necessary)

Black Lotus I don't feel is necessary enough to buy (or even proxy) for this deck. With 3 colors, one color mana just isnt particularly useful, especially late game when I can vial out any creatures and its a dead card. Anything it can do a mox can usually do just as well for this deck.

As for True Believer vs. Orim's Chant, I'm still leaning toward TB. with the Vials, he's not hard to get out, and the body is well worth it. Also, with the addition of Kataki, the mana base will change slightly to better accomodate white, making him easier to hardcast if need be.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

Flip · Joined: 19 Jun 2005 Posts: 18

Ya i got a suggestion. How about you quit makin crappy decks. =)
j/p Looks solid keep up the good work guh ner.