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Forums of Magic-League: Free Online Magic: the Gathering Play with Apprentice and Magic Workstation; casual or tournament play.
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Craze
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5346
Location: Indiana, U
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 Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: Hey....I tried. |
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Err so as you all know the events of this past sunday or as some more retarded appr only players call it... "Black Sunday"
and if you don't I suppose you should read this:
http://www.magic-league.com/news/187/magic_workstation_magic-leagues_1st_choice.html
but anyway
I arrived on the scene after a brutal day of TV and porno to find the league absoultely freaking out. Like seriously the last time I've seen someone freak that bad was when I poored nare in my cousions shampoo and he didn't use it for the hair on his head....
Well anyway so entering my channel: #Standard4you I see dv8r and friends arguiing with my resident admin, Neo. And of course being the chat is going to fast for me to talk I decide rather then kick everyone, I'd just talk to Neo in pm.
So after congradulating him on successfully cutting out 10% of the playerbase. We argued some and finally came up with an idea. As you probably noticed. I haven't really spoke out against this whole debacle. Why? Because this plan was literaly genious and I didn't even find the problem with the new rule anymore.
So the idea was simple. See, I guess one of the main problems people have been arguing for years and I guess why Djinn(Yes he was the staff member that originally suggested this idea years ago) wanted an MWs only league, is because appr is unstable. Its more weak against cheats and lets not forget the whole Walled thing.
So me and Neo came up with this idea. A new type of tourny for apprentice only. Kind of an appr version of a trial.
The winner would get his decks posted just like a trial but he wouldn't get an invite or bye.
Now I know what your saying...
| Quote: | | [Dec-18-06 - 21:22] <&dv8r> this is the stupidest thing I have ever heard |
Well thats what I thought. Till I added a part. We needed a prize. Somthing that didn't directly effect a master/invintational but that at least could help. Then I remembered this...
| Quote: | The top 4 players of a tournament will get points:
* Winner: 4 times the amount of rounds of the tournament. If a tournament had 16 players and 4 rounds, the winning player will earn 16 points for his/her team.
* Finalist: 2 times the amount of rounds of the tournament. If a tournament had 16 players and 4 rounds, the finalist will earn 8 points for his/her team.
* Semi-finalists: the amount of rounds of the tournament. If a tournament had 16 players and 4 rounds, the semi-finalists will earn 4 points for his/her team.
If the tournament is a Trial, the points stated above are DOUBLED. |
So what if this new tourny gave triple the points? Both in team and personnal rating. Then it would be a huge deal because it would skyrocket the winners chance at getting a invite/bye via team or single ratings.
And now your saying...
| Quote: | [Dec-18-06 - 21:23] <&dv8r> that would work
[Dec-18-06 - 21:23] <&dv8r> but could be abusable |
True point, except Neo's idea seemed to make it weekly instead of daily. A drop down from trials but hey, I'm trying here....
So Neo coined it the Champ Series tourny and was about to submit it to the
staff. When I came up with the most brillant part.
Since it was weekly, its formats could be more controlled. Meaning, what if the players got to vote for which format they wanted. Not just would that give the entire tourny more a gleam to it, but it would also promote other formats like Chaos, Tribal, and Mindmaster.
It was a genious plan all around and Neo submitted it.
Then came back to me with the following....
| Quote: | | [Dec-18-06 - 21:05] <Neo> We decided against it, because it could possibly make apprentice users feel that were pushing them 'out' of the league. |
...I'm sorry but does anyone else get that reasoning.
Yes, true their was a second part to that quote. See instead of this their allowing the occasional limited trial to stay on appr. BUT every other format still stays on MWS.
[sarcasm
Thanks ML, you really do a good job at NOT cutting us out of your league
[/sarcasm]
oops forgot a ] |
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BigShow
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1306
Location: Igloo town
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| double the points? just seems unreal, but a seperate appr tourney, maybe have like a appr master and and mws master sperately, and do the sm prizes like that, just appr cannot be extended, so it would most likely be a standard or limited format |
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SL|RedDemon
Joined: 02 Sep 2004
Posts: 116
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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why would you get double or tripple points for using a program suspectible to cheats and with a nonrandom shuffler?
wherer does this make _any_ sense whatsoever?
there should be no added benefits for playing apprentice. be happy with the sealed trials and minis occassionaly run and quit yer whining. |
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Acid_Christ
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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| People want to play MWS because of the Wishes. Im fine with that. T2, Block, Chaos(is that even on mws?), etc should be on Appr, and MWS can have the T1, Legacy, and Extended formats. |
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Neo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry to make everyone have to go through Crazes self-proclaimed version of events. Heres the deal:
Craze was freaking out, claiming he and everyone else should leave and go to that **** place. btw that would be here:
| Quote: |
* iKey (~ikemamiye@ool-1*ne.net) has joined. «57 Peoples»
-SUPER_X:#****- Notice for tourney SUPE12180664 (Draft)
<SUPER_X> "Can I make a suggestion that doesn't involve violence, or is this the wrong crowd?" - Round is 50 minutes long and ends at 10:27. You may check the amount of time remaining in Round 2 of SUPE12180664 at any time during the round with !time. - Visit www.RancoredElf.com, Free Shipping
<iKey> this place is whack magic-league is so much better
<iKey> c ya
iKey (~ikemamiye@ool-1*ne.net) has parted. «56 Peoples»
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But I told assured Craze that we were not killing off apprentice. He came back wanting to know which staff member decided upon this 'absurdness' so he could do a report on them. I gladly told him that I'd take the heat, since I usually do, and that It was not a 'one person' decision.
You see for the last 6 months, we have been gradually increasing the number of MWS Trials. Because of that, more users began downloading and playing with MWS. Now, more than half the league is using MWS over Apprentice in trials (And this is in NON-Planned Trials). T1x By itself showed a 99% majority. The only thing that did not get the majority was Sealed and Draft. Well, we cant draft in MWS so thats obvious, so that leaves limited as being favored by apprentice users.
Anyway, back on story here. I mentioned while talking to Craze, that the decision to have EVERY trial in MWS was not final, and that we would most likely do a 90/10 % thing. The past few months have been between 70/30 and 80/20. I mentioned as well that we could probably still have a large apprentice tourny every week, since thats what ppl seem upset about, that they will miss them.
So Craze made a suggestion. Why not make something to replace the Trial? like.. an appr trial w/ a different name. Wow, the craze I like. He submits Idea's. Ofcourse, you all know craze, and how he likes to try to make himself 'over-ego'd' ..if thats the word im looking for? Yeah, He likes to brag. well, I told Him I'd submit the Idea to everyone, and I did. A Good point was made, that if we had a 'apprentice-like tournament' which wasnt for trial / master or anything, it might make the apprentice only users feel dissasociated. Also, triple team points were just way too high.
In the end, we decided that since many people like appr trials, and mst appr players play limited, that ALL Limited trials should be done in apprentice. Not just 'a few' as craze said. We figure this way, apprentice players will see that we are not killing off apprentice, and we do still support apprentice play -- we just support MWS as the main play application, since the majority of users prefer it.
I'd also like to point out, that I still plan to have a large weekly tournament for apprentice players. It will be for normal points, but it will be voted on by you guys on the forums which format we use, and you will all be given a week in advance to prepare. Most likely the tournaments will be on Sundays. I'm thinking of calling them "Neo's Apprentice Championship."
Its sad that Craze has to have such a huge ego and big head, Sometimes I like him, but then he goes and makes an ass of himself like today. |
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Acid_Christ
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I appreciate the gesture Neo. But a tourney with APPR with no gain is nothing more than a mini. Except we are guaranteed atleast one a week. |
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NahHolmes
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 588
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Acid-Christ, people like MWS for more then wishes. Main points being you can play through a walled connection, the shuffler is random (yes random, MTGO shuffler is random, magic is SUPPOSED to be random, if your deck can't stand a random shuffle that's your problem), and many features such as undraw, easy token creation, arrows, and places to track mana make the game much smoother.
Anyways on a related note to Craze being a dumbass can we get some official word on this http://www.magic-league.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5280 ? |
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Acid_Christ
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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Again, NahHolmes swinging from my nuts from forum to forum.
<NahHolmes> ooh, lets go see what Acid_Christ is doing, because I love his sweet nuts so much. |
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NahHolmes
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 588
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| Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Acid_Christ wrote: | Again, NahHolmes swinging from my nuts from forum to forum.
<NahHolmes> ooh, lets go see what Acid_Christ is doing, because I love his sweet nuts so much. |
Exuse me for making a valid point about MWS being superior to Apprentice.
And sorry... I was using your nuts as a floatation device so I wouldn't drown in your river of tears. |
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Acid_Christ
Joined: 28 Aug 2004
Posts: 470
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Would you mind getting them off of your chin then? Im enjoying it and all, but really, I have a girlfriend. |
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Craze
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 5346
Location: Indiana, U
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:18 am Post subject: |
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my favorite part is bullshit theatrics and the cut bunny played by Owen Wilson....
| Quote: | | In the end, we decided that since many people like appr trials, and mst appr players play limited, that ALL Limited trials should be done in apprentice. Not just 'a few' as craze said. We figure this way, apprentice players will see that we are not killing off apprentice, and we do still support apprentice play -- we just support MWS as the main play application, since the majority of users prefer it. |
yes your not killing appr off...
oh, what you say, limited? Thats good? I didn't know hosting th most commonly played as casual format and taking the every other one away would help anything....
| Quote: | | I'd also like to point out, that I still plan to have a large weekly tournament for apprentice players. It will be for normal points, but it will be voted on by you guys on the forums which format we use, and you will all be given a week in advance to prepare. Most likely the tournaments will be on Sundays. I'm thinking of calling them "Neo's Apprentice Championship." |
hmmm.....
why not, I made an ass out of myself after all, why even try...
Sorry kids, I tried to help do somthing about stupid things done by the staff on a daily basis, but it just seems NOT to work.
so I'll just leave you to debate this...
| Quote: | I appreciate the gesture Neo. But a tourney with APPR with no gain is nothing more than a mini. Except we are guaranteed atleast one a week.
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which outside limited will be pretty much the only appr mini per week soon 
Apprentice, goodbye friend.
oh and btw, NO Mindmaster and Chaos canNOT be played on MWS |
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Gerrardfo
Joined: 04 Sep 2004
Posts: 322
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: |
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The few apprentice trials will be with Sealed because we want to be 100% sure there are no name differences (just in case we missed any). Apprentice isn't dead, which has already been established, and judges are still running minis using it. Furthermore, it's completely ridiculous to say Neo's mini will be the only apprentice mini. If you do not have access to the exact statistics and have not logged and counted every tournament, don't make that claim.
Change is always challenged. Doesn't matter what the change is or how it is done. Insulting the staff doesn't make anything better or worse. I'll agree with Neo's last line then take Alex's mindset. |
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BigShow
Joined: 07 Apr 2005
Posts: 1306
Location: Igloo town
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| As Peter Griffen once said, " Hey Lois look, to characteristics of the republican's, A giant elephant and a Fat guy afraid of Change." |
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NahHolmes
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 588
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| Acid_Christ wrote: | | Would you mind getting them off of your chin then? Im enjoying it and all, but really, I have a girlfriend. |
No they are the only thing keeping my head above water, stop crying about apprentice already. |
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